Max Miller, Host of Tasting History, Storyteller, Cat Dad

Max 0:00

Is this a two or cake?

Robb 0:09

Welcome to another episode of Chewing the Fat. I'm your host, Big Robb. Thank you so much for tuning in and downloading the podcast. I certainly do appreciate that. And to the folks that have bought me a coffee at chewingthefatbr.com, thank you for your support, as well as the folks that have just liked the post and rated the podcast and giving reviews. He is my favorite YouTube food historian. Please welcome from Los Angeles, Max Miller. Max.

Max 0:49

Thank you so much for having me. I love it.

Robb 0:52

How are you doing, man?

Max 0:54

I'm good. Good. Just uh, you know, trying to beat the heat. It's hot out right now.

Robb 1:01

Yeah. What are you guys up to in uh in LA today?

Max 1:04

Uh in my area, I think it's probably 95 or so.

Robb 1:08

Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's almost like Georgia heat where I am.

Max 1:12

So that's uh without the humidity. I was in Tennessee earlier this week and it was yeah, it was hellacious. Yeah, I I can't do that humidity. I was, I was, it was, we were in the you know, the smoky mountains, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna go on a walk. Yeah. Um, and I think I got about 50 feet before I turned around and went back to the air conditioner. And I looked out at the smoky mountains. Yeah.

Robb 1:37

They're so beautiful from here. Yeah. Exactly. Well, it's different when you have to kind of slice off a piece of air just to just to be able to breathe, you know? It's yeah, it was rough. Yeah. It was rough. Well, that's that's awesome that you're that you're traveling a lot. You do travel a lot. Uh uh for for folks that may not be familiar, uh, Max has an amazing YouTube channel called Tasting History. Um you get recipes, ancient recipes, and I say ancient, I mean some of them could be just, you know, uh early as like, you know, school food, lunch recipes and things like that. And you recreate them, but but more than just recreating the recipes, you also give the history of where they came from, the time period they're in. And I just I just find it so fascinating to do that. And uh you're you're in Los Angeles. Is Los Angeles home for you? Was that born and raised?

Max 2:32

No, I was born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona. Okay. Uh all of my family is still there, so I'm back there pretty much every month. Though during the summer, I try to get them to come out here. Or we we all met in Alaska last month for a cruise because uh going going to Phoenix at this time of year is just silly. Why would you do that?

Robb 2:53

I mean, you know, 115 degrees in in the shade, you know. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Oh, so were you always uh were you a history buff when you were growing up? Um Yeah.

Max 3:05

I I was always a lover of history pretty much since I can remember. Um my mother was a teacher, not a history teacher, but she taught humanities, and humanities is history. You know, it's just kind of history through the lens of art and culture and and everything. Um and I loved listening to my grandmother and my grandfather tell stories about their time during the depression and during World War II. So, you know, to a to a little kid, that's about as historical as you can get, uh, you know, way, way back 50 years ago at that time. Um and uh so yeah, I just grew up seeing history as stories and not as history.

Robb 3:55

Yeah, not not as like the construct of I'm in a class and I'm having to learn this or whatever. It's just no, this is this is grandma and grandpa, and I love them. And they're they're spending time with me and telling me about these crazy things that I couldn't imagine. Yeah, no, I love that.

Max 4:10

And they were good storytellers. And I think that that's the that's that's the whole thing. You know, I mean, we've all had, and it's not just history, but we've all had teachers who are good storytellers. Yeah. And whether it's you know, history or or civics or science, if you're a good storyteller, you can make it interesting. And they were very good storytellers.

Robb 4:31

That's awesome. Is that kind of what also inspired you? So you because you you weren't just a fan of history, what did you you did you do? Um you're in LA. I assume you're an actor as well. Uh, you know, I I think I've seen some of your posts. Back in the day. Back in the day that you've done some theater and some acting and different things like that. Um was that what you were passionate about growing up in Phoenix?

Max 4:57

Yeah. Um, I I was uh I grew up singing. Um and that's kind of what my that's what my degree from from college is in uh was singing, but it was always the most of the music that I loved, unless it was very early music, like uh Baroque and Renaissance music, um was always theater, musical theater. Uh which again, it's all about telling stories. Um and so that's that was uh the way that I, you know, really since third, fourth grade, third or fourth grade, I knew that that was kind of what I was gonna do. Wow. Um and uh that so that's what I went to school for, specifically music, but I studied uh theater as well. And then I moved to New York and was there for eight years working in theater um before I moved out here.

Robb 5:48

That's awesome. Um so if you you grew up singing, so and you have these great storyteller grandparents, was so your family was very uh into that type of stuff as well. Were they a music were you a musical family? Uh was it kind of we sing in church type thing?

Max 6:05

No, you know, we weren't we weren't churchgoers. Um I I was in the Phoenix Boys choir. Okay. Uh was really and I, you know, took piano lessons and I was very musical. My family was not particularly musical. Um it's not that they weren't, it's just that, you know, none of them were perfect. It wasn't like we were anyone was a professional musician or anything. However, my entire family is very into music, uh, not necessarily making it, but listening to it. I mean, there was always music in my house growing up of all different kinds. My father especially has a wide range of taste when it comes to music. So one day we would be listening to, you know, Led Zeppelin, the next day was Bach, the next day was Japanese Koto music and uh and and and everything in between, the jazz. And so I was really introduced to just a lot of different styles. And that's kind of, I mean, if you look at my iPod, like I have an iPod today, but if I had an iPod on my on my my cell phone, um, you'd be like, well, that's just a really weird assortment of of music. Um it's everything. Um yeah.

Robb 7:25

But I mean, I I think having a a wide musical taste uh is also uh indicative of like travel when you can't actually go someplace. You're experiencing cultures, you're experiencing things that that universal language of music uh that you can't maybe necessarily get to from where you are at that moment, but you can still experience those things because it's the what are the people singing about? What are the songs of this genre? What are the songs of these people? Uh it's um transportive and transformative as well.

Max 8:03

And I mean, I think that uh that is uh with contemporary music, uh it's uh it can transport you all over the world, but with music through history, it can transport you to other places. I I can't remember now who who said it, but the God, the quote is the past is a foreign country, uh, I believe. And and it it's and it's so true. I mean, it just as foreign as let's say Jordan is to me, so is the year 1850. Right. Um, and and so music would, I mean, I I've I've always when I listen to jazz, I'm put back into that area. When I listen to Lenin and Periton, I'm all of a sudden in I think it's 14th century France, you know. Yeah. Um, and and kind of it it spurns uh even today, when I'm writing an episode uh and doing research, I very often listen to music somehow associated with whatever period I'm listening or I I'm researching and stuff. It's just like it it puts you in the mood.

Robb 9:07

Yeah, yeah. I again giving that whole picture of like, okay, if I'm recreating this, you know, whatever it is, whether it be, you know, uh was it the Salisbury steak, I believe, is what you did this past past week. You know, so if you're looking at that and looking of like, you know, moving it through history and you know, war rations and things like that, it's like, well, what would the what was the music they were listening to at that time that were moving through? Because again, you the music brings people together. So food brings people together too. Yeah. When you experience a culture through its food. Um, so I I again uh I I love, absolutely love what you do as far as like connecting those dots uh through your through your episodes of uh tasting history. Um so we're we're out of we're out of college, you're in New York. Was that the plan? Like I'm gonna be Broadway, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do theater, or I'm gonna do do something like that, or yeah.

Max 10:11

I wanted to do musical theater and and I did. Um, but I one, I realized that I hate auditioning.

Robb 10:21

Yeah.

Max 10:21

Um so much. I hate it. Um I never I thought, you know, well, once I do it for a few years, I'll I'll get more comfortable. No, never did. Um and I also I also hated being poor. Um because even you know, with with theater or or any of the arts, you um even if you make good money for a little while and you're in a show, usually you're not making good money even if you're in a show, but um, but those shows end. Um and then, you know, you kind of have to start from from the ground every single time. Very few. I do have a few friends who are lucky enough to either hit big long-running shows, you know, it's like, oh yeah, did 15 years in Phantom of the Opera, bought two houses in Jersey or whatever. Um, or those people who just are going from job to job to job to job. Um that was never me. I worked, I worked a lot, but I didn't work all the time. And so it was it was rough. Now in your 20s, that's it's fun. Yeah. Uh but by the time I was about 30, I was like, I need something different. So I ended up uh moving out to LA to do voiceover um because I wanted to just have something different. But again, I mean it was the same kind of kind of thing, still auditioning, still, still in insecurity. Um and uh so after a while I got a temp job at Walt Disney Studios, which soon turned into a permanent job at Walt Disney Studios. And I realized that it I loved it so much and I was like, well, I'm just as happy, if not happier, yeah, uh doing this. So that I ended up working in marketing.

Robb 12:10

Nice, nice. Yeah, I as a voice actor myself, I but I I understand exactly what you're talking about. It is, it's every day is an audition, and every day is a you and how many other other names are on that list that are getting three seconds to impress people, you know, with their exactly and do and do it several times a day. Yeah. Um so so the marketing in at Disney, was that then it I mean you're you're doing theater, you do obviously you understand the the not just tech, but the premise of presentation, you know, the the you know, how how to look on camera, how to light, how to, you know, run sound, things like that. Because you just kind of from doing it, you kind of pick a lot of that stuff up because your friends and the people you see every day are the people that are doing all that stuff. So it's kind of by via osmosis, you kind of pick that up, uh being in the in the atmosphere of it. Um where where was the change moving from from Disney and then because I m now maybe I'm making a wrong assumption here, and maybe Disney wasn't the stop before COVID shut everything down and you decided to create your own channel. Um But at what point were you at when you're like, you know what? This is on me. This is something I've I've wanted to do for a while. Let's see how this goes. And you create a tasting history.

Max 13:40

So what happened was um, you know, while I was at Disney in marketing, I I bounced around to a few different positions, and one of those positions um was rough. Uh it was it was very demanding, it was very difficult, uh, and it took all of my time and energy. I was working 70, 80 hours a week. Um, and I was very unhappy. And I realized that what I was missing, besides time to enjoy my life, um, was creativity for me. Right. I was being creative for the mouse.

Robb 14:29

Yeah.

Max 14:30

Um and I realized I need to be creative for me. And now what that creative thing was, I wasn't entirely sure. Um, I I decided that I wanted to uh write a novel, actually. Um and I could because again, I like telling stories, and so I was like, you know, I I want to do this. It had been something I'd thought about for a while. Um, and so I changed jobs, taking a sizable pay cut, actually, because I moved into a job that was very much nine to five, and at 501, you're done and you're not working again until you know it was it was it was just much less stress. Um and so I started working on uh this novel, but then I also thought, you know what? Now that I took this huge pay cut, I need to kind of I didn't think this through, I need to make a little bit more money. Uh so it's either working Uber or um maybe I could start a YouTube channel and make a couple extra hundred bucks a month. Um, you know, I mean, growing on YouTube is very difficult and uh monetizing and everything is very difficult, but I didn't really um know that. So I decided to do that at the end of 2019, and I had no idea what I wanted it to be about, uh, no idea at all. But I had fallen in love with baking uh several years earlier, and I would bring in baked goods to work, and I would tell my co-workers about the history of the baked good uh because that was one of the things that I like doing was baking stuff from older recipes. And so at the Christmas party in 2019, one of my coworkers, we were talking, and I was like, I want to do a YouTube channel, but I don't know what to do. And she said, That, what you do for us every Monday, put that on, put that online. And um, so I gave myself a time horizon. I said, All right, I got 60 days. I'm gonna do this in 60 days. And so I have to have my first video come out by the last week of February. And my first video came out, I think it was on February 23rd, and two weeks later, COVID hit uh and I was sent home because I was furloughed. And um, so it was technically I started it just before COVID. Yeah, and uh COVID just gave me the the time to actually work on it because honestly, it it I wouldn't have kept it up if if I was still working for Disney, because it does take it takes a long time to put these videos together.

Robb 17:21

And you have because you have a very high production value to what you do. Uh and kudos to you for that. And it's and it's it's interesting to see those first episodes compared to your episodes now. But um the storytelling is the common thread through all of it, whether the the kitchen has changed and the camera angle and the microphone and the lights and all of that other stuff, and which, you know, uh which Funko or or Lego is on the back counter. But um but yeah, it's it's uh it it takes a while to to figure out what you want it to be too. You're like, all right, I've got this goal, 60 days, I want to put this up. Okay, uh what do I want this to continue to be? Um and and it's uh again, I'm gonna say it several times throughout this. I just I love it. It's it's one of my favorite favorite things to watch uh because it is educational and it is so entertaining as well. Um so you're so you're there now, you've got time, it's COVID. Do you like, well, pull out the cookbooks, let's let's start uh start rolling through these.

Max 18:32

Yeah. Um, so originally when the channel started, it was actually just supposed to be medieval recipes. Um that was my my thought. Uh and very quickly I realized, well, that's going to be a rather finite topic. Um and in in the comments, people were like, do something Roman, do something Victorian, do I was like, okay, why not? I find all of that interesting. Um, and so I started to to branch out. And those early days it was very difficult because getting ingredients during COVID. I mean, even just getting flour was tough, let alone, you know, some of the off-the-wall ingredients that I need. I remember, I remember the first time that I decided to make hypocrisy, I needed grains of paradise. Um, and today you can get it off of Amazon. At that time, I had to basically I had to look up farms that made that grew this, and they're in Africa. And I reached out and said, Hi, I know you don't sell on on Amazon, but is there any way I can buy it and have it send to me? And like it took like six weeks to get, but uh, I got grains of pears. Now you can just go on on Amazon or you know, penzies or all these other spice websites to get it. But um yeah, and the the audience was there, partly because they had to be, because everyone had to be at home watching watching TV and YouTube. Uh so it grew pretty rapidly. Uh we uh especially after you know, about four months in, it was June, so it was about four months. I put out a video about uh an ancient Roman fish sauce called Garum. And that video just took off. Uh, you know, my my videos had been getting a few thousand views. I had like 10,000 subscribers, which was already more than I thought I would get in the first year. That was that it beat my goal, and I got that in just a few months. And then this video comes out, and within a week we're up to 150,000 subscribers, and it just kept growing from there. So I knew that I had to kind of hit on something. Um so yeah.

Robb 21:03

Well, and and the the process of and you've done Garam a couple of times now. You did the first one and then you've done the the new and improved. I can't I don't know if it's improved or not, but the the It is improved. It is improved. The more uh pungent months. Definitely more labor-intensive version. Yes. Um, that's and that's great. What so at that point, were you working remotely still for the mouse and trying to do this? But well, you said you said you'd got furloughed, so they were like, oh, there's no there's no way, no way to do the work, so don't do the work.

Max 21:42

Yeah. So at first, like for the first few weeks, I was working from home because I at my new job at Disney was in distribution. So working directly with movie theaters. And as the theaters started to close and close and close. close, you know, and it event it and it ended up being that there were a few theaters in like one in Idaho and one in, you know, Califor or Kansas or whatever that was still open that I was this is like my only job was talking to these two theaters. And um and eventually Disney said we're only keeping one person basically or two people out of a team of like 20 and and they furloughed us. And the the thing is I was still getting my insurance I was still getting you know there was like a weekly uh siphoned you know unemployment basically um and my husband was working still uh because he was working on Disney Plus uh so they were booming at the time yeah so while my job disappeared he ended up working more than ever and so I kind of had to stay out of his way all the time because he would work all day every day into the night and so I was upstairs working on scripts and research and everything. Um and I wasn't uh it was a year before I think it was April of 2021 when Disney finally said hey uh it's time to come back and um and I had to make a choice because by that time I realized I can't do both because the videos the videos uh take anywhere from 35 to 50 hours a piece to make well that's a full-time job and and and and it's like well working that many hours is what I didn't want to do so you know one of the jobs would suffer and so I didn't want that so I said um I'm not gonna come back and my boss at the time was a great guy uh he said it was my job to invite you back to Disney but if you had said yes I might have had to fire you for incompetence because what you're doing is so much you know bigger and you can't give this opportunity up. So he was he was great that's awesome.

Robb 24:06

We're still friends. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah um and and you know and it's it's hard sometimes to take that leap of faith even though even though it had you by that time you I'm sure it had proven itself to you that like this is a thing. But it's still a leap of faith because there's that there's always that kind of safety net ish of clocking in, clocking out, a check coming every two weeks type of stuff that is hard when you when you have something creative or you have that dream or that wild idea that you want to pursue to to rip that safety net out from underneath you and be like, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna walk down this path and the path is going to build itself as I continue to walk. If I don't continue to walk the path will never arrive.

Max 24:52

Yeah yeah no I honestly even today it's every day I'm like this is the last day this could be the last day because there are just so many things that are out of your control. I can make videos I can try to get better at making videos but I can't make YouTube push those videos out.

Robb 25:12

Yeah I have zero control over the algorithm um I have zero control over people's tastes and changing tastes um and so every day I'm like this this could be it but uh so far so good knock on wood still going has that process of marketing the show I'm gonna call it the show marketing the show uh changed uh because of that from from it being kind of oh it's organic fine to like all right well I know if I do some some clips or some shorts or some reels and post those around I'll get a little bit more engagement more people to watch. You know it's as someone who who creates myself sometimes it's hard to do that part of it because it feels anti what you want to do.

Max 26:04

You know it's kind of the dirty part of of of being the creative it's like well I want to be creative and I want you to enjoy it but I don't want to have to tell you hey I'm being creative look at me you know you know I I mean I do make reels and and shorts and everything but they're they're all still just cuts of of my you know longer video essentially um and it doesn't really market the the show all that well at all I found that shorts and long form it's like one audience watches one one audience watches another and there's very little overlap literally like less than five percent of an overlap between the two audiences so the so it's it's basically just like making two two versions of the show um just for two different types of of viewer and yeah no you know I don't the only way I know to market this show is to make another video. Yeah because YouTube does such a good job at they're the marketing team they will push your video out if it's good uh they'll they'll push it out and um sometimes even if it's not good. So uh yeah that's the that's the best piece of marketing that I can do. Yeah. Make another video.

Robb 27:29

Yeah yeah and that consistency you know there's something especially you know during lockdown during COVID you know there everybody was looking for entertainment everybody was feeling feeling separated there was something about the consistency of hey every Tuesday I've got this thing that I can watch. I've got my friend making some cool recipes uh you know from history and I learn a little something too um and there were a lot of creators that that came about during that time because that's what the world craved they they were isolated and they were looking for a way to reconnect with people in a way that we couldn't physically so everyone turned to entertainment of some sort whether it be Disney Plus whether it be tasting mystery on YouTube, you know? Yep.

Max 28:17

And and you you here recently put out a couple of episodes where you talk about your favorite dishes and also the absolute worst dishes that you have made um do you have a a favorite episode that you've made it may not have ended up being in the perfect dish or whatever but it was just so much fun to create because maybe you tried a different process or threw some different even visual elements or something into the into the episode is there a favorite episode Julan yeah I think um probably definitely one of them is um the really the entire Titanic series but the third class Titanic video it was the first one that I did and it was the first time that I had you know I I looked for video of you know because usually my images are static images uh but I found video for it and it was it took on a different type of storytelling than my previous episodes it gave me its success rather gave me permission to tell stories that are not directly food related. Um because yes I talk about what food was eaten on the ship but most of those videos or at least a good third of them are actually just retellings of the experience of people going through the sinking. So like in the third class video I tell I recount that experience through a third class point of view using you know real people's uh recollections and the second class is through their view in the first class and etc so um and people love that and so I was like well it doesn't really have anything to do with food but people enjoyed it and so maybe it's okay to make videos where yeah I'm making a historic dish but the history is much more just tangential to the food. Um and so now I I allow myself to do that more often um and it doesn't seem that people mind because it's like a good story is a good story.

Robb 30:45

Absolutely and like I said it's still it's still educational it's still it yes in the food is there as kind of the you know the punctuation at the end of it is like in here's here's now we're gonna taste it. Now we're gonna taste it here's what we had.

Max 31:01

No I love that um and seeing as we've asked that what what is your absolute the the episode that was the bane of your existence I don't know I there have been some that were frustrating um I think the most frustrating episode even though I I really enjoy it um especially once it was done and yet it didn't do very well uh which which always bums me out um it was a video on what foods were served at tournaments during the Middle Ages and I made a a large pie that was meant to be served at medieval tournaments um and it looks like a castle and I am not great with dough and so getting this thing to even sort of look like a castle was a bit of a nightmare I had to restart a few times. Whenever I have to restart a recipe it's always a nightmare. And this was definitely one of the most difficult one of the trickiest things that I've that I've made and so you know when I when I pressed upload I was like thank God get that off my desk I never want to think about this again. And then I think about it all the time.

Robb 32:23

But that's you know I mean you were as a creative you were invested in the the end product and you wanted it to be good. And and and plus with the time when you're you know when you're cooking cooking takes time because we don't just eat raw food and all a lot of recipes have multiple components and this that and the other especially if you're trying to sculpt a castle out of dough I can only imagine the frustration of like that and then you've got to start over because so now you've lost time. Now you talk about working 50 60 hours a week on a project it's like this is going to be a 55 you know to 70 hour week because of this.

Max 33:01

And when it comes to cooking on camera so some a dish that you know I'll make a dish and it takes on on camera it only appears for maybe I'm cooking for maybe like four minutes, five minutes. In actuality it it would probably take me an hour to make 45 minutes to an hour to make yeah when you're filming it that's a six to eight hour period. Yeah um moving the cameras taking multiple shots uh laying out the ingredients in a certain way it it's it takes a lot longer to film cooking than it does actually cooking something.

Robb 33:41

Do you usually cook hero versions as well as tasting versions? Like do you do multiples at the same time?

Max 33:49

Because I know like in a lot of cooking television shows that's what they'll do they'll have a hero one that's already done and they can pull out and hey here it is and then because they have multiple people behind the camera that's why when you're when you're a one person thing yeah no so typically and this is kind of the the goal of the show is to try to replicate the recipe based on what the recipe says and so in doing so you know there's a lot of research before I get into the kitchen on trying to figure out okay what is this recipe trying to tell me you know later recipes it's easy because they're well written but the further back you go it's like is this a soup or a cake? Honestly you can't tell because it's just a list of ingredients.

Robb 34:36

Yeah.

Max 34:37

So I do a lot of research trying to figure that out looking at other recipes from the time looking at other recipes that I've done looking at modern versions uh other recipes within the same cookbook but then once I actually am making it I make it once and that's what I taste on camera. The only time that I will make something twice is if one, the end product turned out to be completely different from what I know it's supposed to be. Like if I know it's supposed to be a cake and I end up with you know raw batter, well that's okay I'm gonna redo it because in that case the recipe is let me down in some way, which happens all the time um and I wasn't able to figure out that it was going to let me down before I made it.

Robb 35:25

Gotcha.

Max 35:26

Usually I can figure out that where it's going to let me down and and fix that before it happens. Or when I have screwed something up in the process and so now it is not the recipe's fault. It's my technique fault technique's fault you know if I just didn't realize that if I left out an ingredient or if I didn't mix the mix the batter properly or or whatever it is um then I will remake it a second time because I do want it to be like I said the goal is to try to recreate what the cookbook author had in mind. And and so yeah but that is rare I I can probably count on on on my 10 fingers and not use all of them how many times I've had to make something twice.

Robb 36:23

Yeah I I love that and um along with the cooking you you also have um drinks that you explore as well and and then uh you've got a a side channel with um with your husband as well uh catch up yeah it's just kind of like some behind the scenes stuff what's going on in our life what's a little information about the cats occasionally so just something that's a little it I I liken it to just you know sitting around having a cup of coffee kind of like we're doing and just kind of chit chatting about what's going on and what the process of this that or the other was.

Max 37:10

Yeah. And it's that is his project. He started it during COVID he was like I want to do this and I was like all right um so that is his project and so I never push him to make a video or upload. So it's a very inconsistent upload schedule and it's just kind of when he has time we'll do an episode.

Robb 37:32

Uh so yeah yeah now the the the show itself it seems like it has given you the ability to travel more for research and just for being able to spend time in other places with your family and stuff like that as well. What's been one of the favorite things because you also did we did did you get to the World Cup? Did I just say you went to the World Cup as well? Yeah yeah yeah so what's been one of the favorite things that that has happened because of tasting history for you and your family?

Max 38:08

So I mean the World Cup was was pretty cool and that was directly I I was invited by YouTube. So that was very cool because I would have never uh thought to go honestly definitely would have never paid to go um so that was that was very cool. I do think that some of the some of the experiences that I've enjoyed the most is I've started leading river cruises uh filled with fans. We book either half the ship or a whole ship and these ships are small you know they're only like 100 people so um and then we go down the Nile or the Danube and just geek out about it's you know mostly history but then a lot of food and culture and everything like that. And they're they're wonderful experiences. One it's you know an opportunity to travel yeah but two it's an opportunity to get to meet the people who watch the show because it's a very isolating job. I I'm here in my office or in my kitchen all day every day pretty much I very rarely leave the house unless I'm going to travel like the only time I leave the house is to go to the airport you know um and so I even though there are maybe a million people that are watching a video I don't know any of them except for my mom and um so getting to meet 50 people who watch the videos who know them so well and and everything and have the same love for uh for it as I do that that 50 people means more in a way than the million people. Yeah uh because the million people are just a number on a screen. Right right whereas actually meeting the people and getting to know them is uh a very different experience.

Robb 40:16

Yeah. I think as I I look before we started the the uh interview um I think you're almost at four and a half million subscribers on YouTube and you've got over almost 900 million views across all of your videos and stuff like that. That's one of those numbers that seem like that can't be real because again you know it it's it's like I can't I can't meet all of those people. We can't all get together and have coffee at one time. But you know it's it's you making the show making an impact on people and having them interested in it. And it's it becomes like you said that one-sided relationship where it's like they know you don't know them. So the opportunity you have to actually get to know some of the people that appreciate what you do or just have a passion for the history and the cooking and stuff like that it's it's kind of like that breath of fresh air that kind of like ah okay all right cool cool cool cool I'm not I'm not the crazy one in the studio by myself. Yeah exactly there are other people out there that that appreciate this as well. Yeah I love that I love that um is there uh anything that you're expecting and and looking forward to before the end of the year with the show anything new and exciting you've got planned do you plan your episodes out way in advance or is it kind of as things pique your interest? And I I say that question partially because you just did uh some Odysseus uh Odysseus Odyssey Foods re you know re which obviously that's a big movie release so there's nothing wrong with kind of tying into some of that food of that time period but uh for the coming year is there something that you're looking forward to planning out so I I plan out my videos and then I almost never stick to that plan because like you said it's really what actually piques my interest at that time.

Max 42:20

So you know I'll I'll write down these are the next 20 videos that I want to make but then I actually get to making one of those and I'm like well I'm not interested in that right now. And so I it goes to the back of the line. So you know out of the next 20 videos that I have planned maybe four of them will actually end up being what's made um and the others are whatever interests me at at that moment. There are so I just started a World War II series. I am looking forward to to working on that mainly because I've used it as an excuse to buy the um the canteens and plates and all this stuff of the German Wehrmacht and the Japanese army and the English British army of World War II you know for the images for the pictures for the thumbnail. And so it's just cool to get to to see that kind of stuff and hold it in real life and be like oh my God this this is truly history in my hands. Thank you eBay yeah um so I'm I'm looking forward to that there you know there I won't really do more than probably one a month if that so it'll last for the next six eight months or so. Yeah um I'm really really excited about a video that I just finished editing it was the one actually that was rendering uh today um because it's about my literally my favorite topic in the entire world which is the Norman invasion of 1066. Um I am obsessed With that topic. In fact, the novel that I started to write was about that. And I wanted to do a video about it for a long time. And finally I did, partly because the bio tapestry is going to England or just arrived in England for the first time in nearly a millennia. So I was like, well, that's good timing. Yeah, I don't know. You know what? Like I said, whatever I'm excited about is the video that I'm working on at that moment.

Robb 44:30

I love that though.

Max 44:31

And I'm super excited about whatever video I'm working on. Because I need to be, because I'm going to be with it for the next 60 hours or so.

Robb 44:37

Yeah. Yeah. And it and it's and it's your thing. It's your thing too. There is just something magical when you are working on something for yourself, for you know, your creativity, your vision, and getting it out of you and putting it into the world, whether it be a video or writing a song, writing a book, or whatever it is, to have that thing that's inside you and be able to actually express it and get it out. There's just something that is not like that anywhere else in the world.

Max 45:09

And then what's crazy is once you do get it out, you're kind of done. Or at least I am. Like once I finish a video, I don't I almost never give another thought. Um because there's the next one. Because there's the there's the next one. I'm like, well, I'm not excited about that anymore. I'm excited about this one. Uh, which is kind of the way that I why I like the way that I've structured the show is because every week is so different. I'm not talking about the same topic at all. I bounce around from you know, medieval Europe to feudal Japan to the 1930s, ancient Rome. I just bounce around because I you're the Doc Brown of food history.

Robb 45:49

You just there we go. You know, I love it. I love it. Uh Max, aside from what you're working on now, what is bringing you joy?

Max 46:02

My cats uh is is a big thing. Um they're my best friends. Um names Ollie, Milo, and Cersei. Uh Cersei's a bit of a grump, so I only see her at mealtime and at night. Um Milo and Ollie are just they're they're my companions throughout the day. I had to close the door, otherwise they'd be up here ruining stuff. Um, and I don't I never stop them. Um they bring me joy playing games with my friends. Uh I'm a big board gamer. And uh so I, you know, play I have a few friends who every we try every week, it doesn't happen. I'd say every two or three weeks we get together, play board games, and and it's just great. Um, and seeing my family. Like I said, I try to go home at least once a month, sometimes more. Um being with my family brings me great joy.

Robb 47:01

I love that.

Max 47:03

And Lego. It's a different kind of joy, but it's a diversion. Love putting together Lego every day, pretty much, at least for half an hour.

Robb 47:11

I love I am a huge fan of Lego myself. So it's I I definitely understand that. There's something about the the focus of working on Lego and the outcome and seeing whatever the model is. I'm big in the uh architecture stuff. Yes, those are my favorites. I I love those because they're I don't know. Like you said, that's just something you're you're creating this three-dimensional piece of art that also has its own kind of version of history to it, because it's either from a movie that meant something to you or a place that you've been or want to go, or things like that. No, I I love that.

Max 47:51

I also like it because it, you know, it's you you're using your brain still, but it is a completely different part of my brain than what I use to make tasting history. Because it's it's following instructions. It's it's just following instructions. And and it's and you can kind of I can turn off the almost like creative on me part of my brain. And I'm relying more on the creativity of who designed that model. Um, and so it's just like a different muscle that gets to be used um and and rests my other muscles.

Robb 48:32

All right, Max, this is the second segment of the show. This is where we dive a little bit deeper into your mental health journey. Uh, I definitely believe the more we can talk about the things that kind of give us those down dark days, uh, the easier it is for us all to get through them. So, for you, how do you keep the darkness at bay?

Max 48:51

Um, I think my husband helps me a lot. Um I tend to worry a lot about the future. Uh the future of the channel, the future of finances, the future of my health. I'm always kind of worrying, oh, well, what's gonna happen in 20 years? Um, and and he's much better at not thinking ahead that far, you know, kind of uh keeps keeps me present, I guess. Um and also he's very good at kind of being like what's gonna happen is gonna happen. And you're worrying about things that you can't control. So worry about the things that you can control. Take a break. Um yeah. I I don't struggle as much as I used to. Um you know, there was a there was a period of time where it was actually after I gave up um performing for a living that I, you know, felt like I had failed, that I was a disappointment to who, I don't know, but that I was a disappointment. Um and it took me a long time to realize it's not failure. There's there's you know, you chose something different, and uh there's there's one thing, you know, it's one thing to give up on something because it's hard, and it's another thing to give up on something because it's not making you happy. Yeah. We don't need to keep pursuing something that's not making us happy just for the sake of pursuing it, because even when I was successful, it wasn't making me happy. So then it's like, well, why am I doing this? Um, but it took a long time to kind of figure that out. Um and I don't know that there was something that necessarily that I did that helped me figure that out as much as just time and distance, um and finding other things that did make me happy.

Robb 51:26

Yeah.

Max 51:27

Uh I loved working at at Disney. I never thought I would like working in an you know, a corporate environment, and I did. I loved the people that I worked with. Uh it was an exciting place to work. I, you know, and then of course now I really love what I do now. Um because I think I think very often we we get stuck on like well, I'm supposed to do this, and this is what's going to make me happy. But actually, it's it's something in there that will make you happy, and trying to figure out what that is. And I thought what was going to make me happy was performing on stage and having people applaud. And it turns out what makes me happy is being creative and telling stories, even if those stories are to myself um, or to my poor cat who I do talk to throughout the day, uh, my first sounding board for anything. Um and so it it it took a long time to figure out exactly, okay, it's it's not actually acting, it's it's part of that that I love. Um, and so I just need to do that part of it. And I'm very fortunate that, you know, today with YouTube and and everything, you can do that without the permissions that you needed to have in the past. You know, there was a time, well, I mean, with with with acting, there are so many gatekeepers there that you have to get by, that you have to get permission to do what you love and at least make a, you know, to make a living at it at least. Um and today you don't need that in the same way. Um, you know, obviously the level of success is determined by things that are out of your control, but there's nobody stopping you from putting something together and putting it online to have people watch, you know, or self-publishing a book or whatever it is.

Robb 53:39

In the access to the technology that we have now, I mean, there's a lot of stuff you can do with the the camera on your phone without having to invest. Well, I want to say without having to invest thousands of dollars. The can the phones cost thousands of dollars. But but a camera used to cost tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, you know, exactly. That was just for the camera, not that needed special lights that had to be, you know, there was all this other stuff too.

Max 54:02

So yeah, no, it's it's very much more accessible, still very expensive, but nothing like what it used to be. Um I also think that uh one reason I keep my travel schedule pretty busy is because I do try to kind of unplug uh when I travel. I don't make episodes, I do research, but that's what I love doing. Um, and I get inspiration for doing episodes, but I no longer make episodes when I'm traveling um for the most part because that's my time to kind of recharge.

Robb 54:37

Yeah.

Max 54:37

Uh and I think that that's that's a really important thing because there have been times where it's like I'm I'm just making episodes and just working on the next one, and now I'm not actually having fun. Um and you gotta step away for a couple of weeks. And then when you come back, it's like it's brand new.

Robb 54:58

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's important because it's something that you you love, even within something that you love. There can be that part that you never want it to become bitter in your mouth. You never want to be like, uh, I gotta do this other thing. Now it's become a slog, and now you're like, ah, you know, you've lost the love of doing the thing made you lose the love of the thing you love doing. Exactly. You know? And so so you have to be able to step away from it and be okay stepping away from it. Because, you know, that's one of those things, like you said, when you stepped away from from acting, you know, you can feel like, oh, you you get this dread of like, well, will they accept me back if I take I didn't put out an episode this week, I put it out in two weeks. Or, you know, it's like, what's gonna happen? It's like, well, you have to you have to give yourself that permission to to rest. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that.

Max 55:53

Well, I will say I've never missed an upload. Well, I've never missed a Tuesday because of that fear. I so when I do travel, the weeks leading up can be extremely stressful because I'm making multiple videos to bank them. Um, so yes, there is that. There is that too.

Robb 56:15

Well, you know, and and I'll say this just as creator to creator. Um when I started the podcast, and it was uh every it was gonna be every week, whenever the episode, every week, every Thursday, it's gonna be a new episode, a new episode, new episode. And then life started happening. Yeah. And I had to, it was a friend of mine who's like, look, what you have to say is important, what what your guests have to say is important. The people that need to hear it may not hear it the week you put it out. You know what I mean? Yeah, I I say this often, it's like your biggest fans have not found you yet. Yeah, you know, because then it's like you're gonna find somebody, oh, I found this channel, and it you've been doing it since 2020. And they're like, oh my gosh, have you seen this guy? It's new people. Yeah, you know, and then they they're the ones that fall in love with what you're doing and continue on. So, so take some of the pressure off yourself, you know. But when you're you have a certain personality, you're like, all right, this is what I do. And and that's how I was, but I had to give myself the grace because I was getting burnt out. Again, stuff was becoming bitter at the thing that I loved doing. So I had to give myself grace to like take take a week off, you know, when you start freaking out because I couldn't, for me, it's like I couldn't book a guest or somebody had something else going on. Right. And so I had to take the pressure off and because I would do short, or I'd do a short episode where it's like what I call bite-sized episodes, or it's like it's just me talking about something.

Max 57:44

So I've that's kind of what I've I've figured out over the years is I am better now, not always accurate, but I am better now at knowing how long an episode is going to take me. And so when I do, when I am going to be going traveling or when I am falling behind, I can pick certain topics that I'm like, I know that I can make this video in 25 hours instead of 40 hours. Um and uh unfortunately, so often I'll I'll be like, there's not there much that much history there. I I did a video recently on Welsh Rarebit because I was like, well, that's gonna be easy. It's literally just cheese on toast, and there can't be that much history about Welsh Rarebit. This will be a nice short 15-minute episode. I think it's like 25 minutes long or something like that. There was so much more. Um, and that that actually happens a lot because I love the research portion. That's my favorite part of the episode process. And so getting me to stop the research and find an end point is is not easy.

Robb 58:49

Yeah. But that's but again, because that's part of that's part of you, that's part of the magic, that's part of your creativity, is is finding that stuff and then sharing it. Just the joy you have in sharing, just the smile you have right now, talking about just the research part of it. You know, that's something that people may not get. That that's that's the fun part for you. The the recording and this episode.

Max 59:13

People are always saying, you know, are you looking for a researcher? Do you, you know, you should offload some of this work? And I'm like, absolutely not. That's what I love. That's what I would be doing even if I wasn't making episodes. Right. I would still be reading all these books behind me, you know, yeah, um, and coming up with stories. And it was just, it would just be that I was telling those stories to my coworkers instead of making videos.

Robb 59:38

All right, Max, this is the third segment of the show. It's time now for the fast five. The fast five. It's time now for the fast five. Fast five. Sorry, I'm still working on a theme song for this section of the uh of the podcast. I loved it. Uh loved it.

Max 59:53

Knock it out apart.

Robb 59:56

The Fast Five is powered by Poddex. It's an app created by my friend Travis Brown, and you can go to chewingthefatbr.com slash pod decks, and it'll take you to a link. You can download it uh from your favorite app store. It's built for podcasters where they're great icebreaker questions. Uh no wrong answers, just the first thing that comes to the top of your head. You ready? I'm ready. All right, here we go. Question number one. If someone made a movie about your life, who would play you? Oh boy. I often give the two parts. It's like, who would you want to play you and who would actually get book the gig?

Max 1:00:31

Who would actually book the gig? Me remembering actors' names is not my strong suit. So it's like, oh, that guy who was in that one show. Um I feel like a young Will Forte would actually book the gig. Um and I do love Will Forte, but I often get the that I look like Will Forte. Um, though, who would I want to do it? Because who do I want to be like is Jimmy Stewart. He's dead. So he's not gonna get the job. But um uh every character that Jimmy Stewart ever played, I'm like, that's what I want to be. That's you know, I mean, Mr. Smith goes to Washington. I want to be here.

Robb 1:01:14

Yeah, I love that though. What a great answer. That's awesome. Question number two. If you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?

Max 1:01:27

Uh probably Bath, England. Yeah. If I could bring my family, that's always the problem. Yeah, you know, because it's too far to go see them every month. Um but uh that or on the north shore of one of the Hawaiian Islands.

Robb 1:01:45

Okay. Well, so what's what's special about Bath, England?

Max 1:01:50

Uh it's just there, it's a beautiful city. There's so much history. It's the perfect size of city. You're you're not that far from London. You can go to London for the weekend, but you don't have all of the hubbub of London. Um, it's it's just one of the most charming places, I think, in the entire world.

Robb 1:02:10

That's awesome. Yeah. My my oldest son lives in Cornwall. Uh nice with uh his wife and my granddaughter. Uh, but they're about a four-hour bus ride from London. So it is not, it is, it is not a just every weekend heading to the big city type thing. But uh they do love it over there. It's it's it's a beautiful coastal area that they're in. So I love that. I love that. All right, question number three. As a food person, hamburger or hot dog? Hamburger. Yeah? What's your go-to?

Max 1:02:46

That's one of my favorite foods. Yeah. Hamburgers are yeah, that pizza, ribs, yeah. Wow. What's your what's your go-to burger build? Cheddar cheese, lettuce, pickles, bread and butter pickles if they've got them, but nobody ever does got them. So I gotta make that one. Um, and then bacon, and you know, the secret sauce, which is usually just kind of like Thousand Island, right? Um, or barbecue sauce.

Robb 1:03:15

Hmm. That is a great burger. Yeah. And I like a brioche bun. Hmm. Fancy. A little sweetness there to go with all the other savory that's in it. Yes. Yeah, no, I love that. And I love bread and butter pickles. My wife hates them. She but I love it. Yeah, but I love them. I feel like they're candy. They're candy. Yeah, yeah. But but like, but better, there's there's something more to them than like a gherkin. A gherkin, a sweet gherkin is just like too, too sweet gherkin-y.

Max 1:03:43

Yeah, no, no, no. These they're complicated flavor. I love them.

Robb 1:03:46

That is awesome. That is awesome. Question number four. If you could learn any language fluently, what would it be? I think Spanish. Okay.

Max 1:03:58

Uh, I think it one, it would be the most useful. Um, and I do there a lot of the places I enjoy traveling to are Spanish speaking. Oh, yeah.

Robb 1:04:10

That's awesome. And question number five. If you could pick one lesson to give to someone uh that is new, wants to start an idea on YouTube or something like that, um, what would that be?

Max 1:04:29

Think about what is not out there that you wish was out there. Um and then and then make it. That's what I kind of did with tasting history. Uh the the way that I created it was um kind of the way that I formatted it in my mind was the the great British bake-off in the first few seasons used to always have a little history segment. It was like a two or three minute little segment about the history of one of the things that they were baking. And they got rid of that segment when um when Mary Berry and Melan Sue left. And I missed that segment. And it I thought it was one of the more charming aspects to the show, and it really lost something when the the show lost something when they got rid of those. Um, I heard it was because they didn't think they would do well in America, uh, because it was getting bigger in America, but I don't know that. Um but that was kind of, you know, I wanted more of that. And that was not really on YouTube in that format. Yeah, there was other food history stuff, there was a lot of other history content and everything, but that was not there. And so I did my best to recreate that in my own way. Um, and so I I think that there is something to be said about um being inspired by things that that you love, not copying them, but being inspired by multiple things to create something new. I mean, I think that there is nothing truly new, everything is an amalgam of of other things that you know we put into our brain and shake it up and spit out something new. But if it's already out there, you know, don't try to recreate Mr. Beast videos because Mr. Beast is successful. Uh, don't try to recreate my videos because my videos are successful. Try to figure out something that isn't there yet and put your own spin on it and and make that. It's harder. I'm not gonna lie. Uh, it's harder than just copy somebody's already uh magic formula, but um but one, it's probably gonna be more successful in the long run, and two, it will keep you more engaged. Yeah, and uh because it's your formula only you can do it, yeah. You know, um even people who try to copy that formula, they won't be successful because it's not it's not you, yeah, you know. Yeah, and if you truly created the idea in that way, in a specific way, then then it can't be replicated.

Robb 1:07:27

I love that. What a great piece of advice. That's awesome. Well, that's our fast five, and that is the show, Max. Thank you so much for being here. Awesome. Thank you for having me. If folks want to keep up with you, what is the absolute best way they can do that?

Max 1:07:42

Uh watch me on YouTube, Tasting History, and Instagram is probably my most active uh kind of what I'm doing in my life account. So that's Tasting History with Max Miller on Instagram.

Robb 1:07:54

Awesome. I'll make sure I put those links in the show notes so that folks can find you. Um, Max, I love you. I appreciate what you do. Please, please keep it up. Um and just I wish you nothing but success with everything that you've got going on, man.

Max 1:08:10

Thank you so much. It was wonderful getting chat. Yeah, thank you.

Robb 1:08:14

Thank you so much for being here. And if you would like to support this podcast, I'd appreciate it if you bought me a coffee at chewingthefatbr.com. But until next time, I look forward to the chance we have to sit a spell and chew the fat.