Kelly Moscinski, Casting Director, CEO, Mom

Kelly 0:00

Oh yeah, people also need encouragement.

Robb 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Chewing the Fat. I am your host, Big Robb. Thank you so much for tuning in, downloading the podcast. I certainly do appreciate it. And to the folks that have bought me a coffee at ChewingTheFatBR.com, thank you for your financial support. It helps us to continue to tell these beautiful, messy human stories. And calling in today from LA, please welcome Kelly Moscinski. Kelly, how are you doing?

Kelly 0:35

I'm doing good. How are you? Thank you so much for having me.

Robb 0:38

Oh, thank you for agreeing to be here. Uh Kelly is a casting director, business owner, entrepreneur, uh, world traveler uh that that I met in the VO community. Uh and uh she's just got such a great uh attitude and and life about what she does and how and the care she gives to the work she does, but also her family and everything like that. So that's why I wanted to have you on and uh talk to you more about who you are and what you do. So thank you so much for being here.

Kelly 1:08

Yeah, I'm excited to be here.

Robb 1:10

So LA, is that is that home for you? I mean, I know I know it's home now. Is that uh where you grew up and all like that?

Kelly 1:17

I actually grew up in Michigan.

Robb 1:19

Okay.

Kelly 1:19

So yep, I'm originally from Michigan, Christmas, Michigan, to be exact. Um, I grew up on a in a in a little tiny village on Jingle Bell Lane. Um, a lot of people are like, this can't be real. Like your life is like a Hallmark movie. I'm like, it's it's real. Jingle Bell Lane, Christmas, Michigan. Look it up. That's where I grew up. That's so cool. So yeah. So in in the cold, right on Lake Superior. Um, you know, it's very different than Los Angeles, that's for sure.

Robb 1:50

Yeah, I can imagine.

Kelly 1:51

But LA is definitely home now.

Robb 1:53

Yeah. So what was uh what was uh life like for you growing up in in Christmas, Michigan? Were you always interested in the arts and things like that?

Kelly 2:03

Yeah. So I mean, my family, I actually grew up in a very like sports-centric family. Um, you know, my parents were both coaches of various sports. My brother was big into sports. I played sports, but I was always terrible at it. Um, it was not something that I loved. It was not something that I was good at. Um, but it felt like it was something that I that I had to do, you know. And small town, it's like you're kind of limited in what there is. Um, I feel like I kind of found my way into the arts um through dance. I was a ballet dancer for about 14 years. Um, I was on point shoes, you know, ballet was was my thing until I had a couple of injuries in high school that required knee surgery, ankle reconstructive surgery, um, which also then took me out of sports and all of that. And that's when I got into theater. So I didn't actually get into theater until I joined the drama club in high school.

Robb 3:02

Oh, wow. Wow.

Kelly 3:03

Yeah. So that was kind of the start of it. And then I mean, the rest is history after that. It's like once once that that hits, you know, it it sucks you in. And yeah.

Robb 3:13

Yeah. It was so um, and gosh, that's gotta be uh devastating. And I'm sure we can talk about some of that, you know, in the next segment. To have been doing that much dancing and then for have something that takes that that passion away from you uh that way. Uh but uh, you know, it's great that you found another passion. Uh not necessarily to replace it, because I I'm I'm sure it is that passion is still there, but but to be able to do something else that allows you that kind of artistic creative outlet. Um Do you remember what one of your first uh shows or roles were when you made it into the theater side of things?

Kelly 3:51

Well the the funny thing is, is I I often worked behind the scenes. I love doing like the sets and doing the painting and you know, all of that kind of stuff. The first time I did any sort of acting was kind of coming off of those surgeries and getting out of sports. And I was like, okay, I just want to be involved somehow. And um what the what the drama club director ended up doing is there were two of us, me and me and one other girl who were just kind of getting started. So we didn't we didn't audition for the show that they were doing, but he was like, I want you guys to be intermission entertainment. So my very first time on stage, I was actually like intermission entertainment. I don't know. We were dressed like hippies, we were just reciting quotes, like Confucius kind of quotes, and like it was the strangest thing, but I was like, oh, this is fun. You know, like I get to do something different. And I'm on a stage again. I'm not dancing, but I'm you know, I'm I'm entertaining, providing that entertainment to people. And that's that's really where I, you know, I feel like it was one of those things where I was like, I didn't necessarily want to be an actor, but I wanted to, I wanted to provide joy to people, you know. It's like I wanted to to put that into people. And in a small town, there's there's very few opportunities for that sort of thing. Um, so yeah, and of course that all snowballed, and I was, you know, basically running the community theater there. I was directing a lot of shows. Um, you know, I was acting in them. I had some lead roles in some, you know, community theater shows and stuff. It just that that wasn't where my passion was. It was the the directing, the, you know, putting everything on.

Robb 5:31

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly 5:32

Yeah.

Robb 5:33

I love that. Um, did that passion did follow you into college? Did you pursue pursue a degree in that or anything like that?

Kelly 5:40

Yeah. So I originally went to college for pre-med.

Robb 5:44

Oh, wow. Okay.

Kelly 5:46

So I wanted to be a psychiatrist. So my focus was in psychology. Fun fact.

Robb 5:51

Yeah.

Kelly 5:52

Um, and yeah, so I got it, I got into pre-med, and essentially that first year, I was doing a lot of the the, you know, the uh elective classes and things like that that you that you have to take. Um, I was doing psychology classes, I took a theater class, you know, all these, all these different things. And when I sat down to meet with my advisor, he was essentially like, you know, we got to go back, we got to do remedial math, we got to do this. And yeah, I was like, you know what? My heart's just not in that. Maybe I don't want to be a doctor. You know, and I was loving the theater and I was getting very involved in the theater department. I was like, okay, but you can't just go from being a doctor to getting a theater degree. Like, what do I do with that? You know, so I ended up switching my major to education. It's like, I'll be an English teacher, then I can do the drama club, and you know, I can do all this stuff. Basically, got all of my credits. The only thing I didn't do was the student teaching, but I would have had a degree in education. Finally, after year two, I was like, I'm just gonna go, I'm theater major. Like, that's what I need to do. Just gonna be a theater major and see where that goes in my life. Oh, um, so yeah, I ended up getting my bachelor's degree in theater, and then the theater department offered me a full ride to get my master's. Um, so I was I was running the box office. Um, I was uh teaching some classes and doing all of that during my master's degree, which I ended up getting my master's degree actually in writing, creative writing. My thesis was a play that I had written. Um, I was the first student to direct one of the main stage productions for the for the university. Um, so that was pretty cool. I got I got some great opportunities there. Um, but it wasn't until I put aside plan B and just went full in on plan A. This is what I'm gonna do, and we're gonna see see where it takes me in life.

Robb 7:44

I love that. I love that. What's what school was it? I assume this wasn't uh Christmas community college or anything.

Kelly 7:50

No, no, Northern Michigan University. So still in the upper peninsula of Michigan, about an hour away. It was it was in the same city where I was dancing. So I was I was driving an hour to and from dance classes all those years. Wow. Very dedicated parents, doing homework in the car and you know, all that stuff so that I could dance.

Robb 8:08

But that you know, but that helps so much when you do have those passions and you do have people that that are there to to support you and like, yeah, let's let's make this happen. I do think that's really interesting though that you went to for psychology because there's a lot of psychology in what you do now and what you do as a director on stage, how to get a performance from someone uh, you know, other than like just here's a line read, here, say it this way. It's get them to connect with the material to be able to give that performance, give what that vision that you have, and then to encourage them without maybe they actually knowing that that's what you're doing as well, you know? So that's that's really interesting. Um, I mean there's I had there's commonalities between those for definitely.

Kelly 8:52

Absolutely. And I had a moment while I was directing the the main stage show at the university. I had a moment where it's like I had a couple of actors come up to me and they were like, I never know what I'm doing right with you directing. So I've I found out and I'm so glad that they were so open with me about this because it like it changed my style for forever, you know. It's like I'm still like the way I direct and the way I coach now is influenced by this moment. But they came to me and they were like, you know, we're just not ever sure if we're doing anything right because all of your notes are things to fix, you know, constructive criticism, but still like it's always things to fix. And I realized, you know, in my head, I was like, no note is a good note.

Robb 9:40

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly 9:41

So keep what you're doing. If I didn't mention it, fix the things that I'm mentioning. And I realized, and this, I mean, this is this goes back to psychology, you know, it's all it's all part of that. But I was like, oh, oh yeah, people also need encouragement. You know, they do need to know what they're doing right because if somebody is just always telling you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it, that is going to take its toll. And I was seeing it on stage, you know, I was I was seeing these actors just kind of shutting down slowly rehearsal after rehearsal. And it's like, as soon as I started incorporating, like, oh, I loved this moment when you did that, it's like they started, they started to light up again. And that made, that made all the difference. And so that's why, you know, it's like a lot of people are like, you're always so encouraging. And I'm like, yeah, because there's something to be said about that too. I get better performances out of people with some encouragement because then then they can keep that confidence.

Robb 10:36

Yeah.

Kelly 10:36

You know, then you take that constructive criticism a lot easier if you also know you're doing things right.

Robb 10:43

Yeah, yeah. Because there's a part of us, especially as performers, actors, even just humans, that, you know, the more you hear the negative, the more you start to believe it, the more that lizard brain starts to say, nope, this is the reality of it. You always get notes on what you're doing wrong. You never hear anything you're doing right. So when you give somebody the opportunity to hear something they're doing right, you know, call it call it a compliment sandwich or whatever, you know, it's like, oh, I love when you do this. Could you also pronounce this word correctly? And then also this was great. You know, that then allows them to have feel that full range of emotions and and be part of that experience to realize it's not all bad. Yes, there are things that can improve, but it's not all bad. So don't get into that headspace. Yes.

Kelly 11:27

Yep, yep, I completely agree. And it's like, you know, some people are like, oh, Kelly, be hard on me, be hard on me. And it's like, I will be hard on you when I need to be and about what I need to be, you know, because I also think that there are directors out there who have the no bullshit attitude, but it's really they're kind of harsh just to be harsh, you know, and it's like, and they don't there there are better ways to go about that. Um, and if that's their style and people, you know, can work well with that, awesome. Then that's then that's your coach. I find that majority of people also need to know what they're doing right along with you know what what could be tweaked.

Robb 12:08

Yeah, no, I love that. So, what was the transition then from theater stage at Northern Michigan University to how'd you land in Los Angeles? Is that a lot of steps in between there?

Kelly 12:24

No, no, actually. So when I graduated with my bachelor's, I was actually gonna move to New York. You know, New York was the thing. I was like, I'm gonna either direct, stage manage, you know, I'm working in theater in New York. After I had gotten my master's degree, I was like, Los Angeles. Wow. Going to Los Angeles. So graduated in May, moved out to LA in July, started working at a voicecaster in October. And it just, it just kind of happened, you know. So at that time, it you weren't applying for anything online. You didn't have email addresses for everybody. You know, it was one of those things. It's like I looked up casting directors and talent agencies primarily. I sent out over 350 cover letters and resumes before I even left Michigan to everybody in Los Angeles. Cause I was like, I'll be an intern, I'll be an assistant. Like I am willing to work from the ground up, you know. Um, that's one thing I've always I've always had a strong work ethic. Like I will, I'll do whatever I need to do, you know, like put me to work. Um, so it's it was one of those things where I was like, I'm just gonna just kind of do what I need to do. And it's so interesting because it was so hard to just get a normal job. You know, it was like I did some background work. Um, again, acting, not what I wanted to do, but I was like, eh, let's let's see what happens. I'm just gonna, you know, I did the background work so that I could talk to the 80s, so that I could start meeting people in production. Um, so then I got a couple of leads on things like that. I ended up working at a theater company here in Burbank, the Colony Theater, um, which is how I met Catherine, who's our senior casting director at VoiceCaster. Um, so yeah, we I was doing backstage of shows and things like that. Uh, I was like, okay, but I need to pay bills still. So, like, what kind of job can I get? And it's like I was applying at banks and all these things. For me, the biggest thing I had working against me is one, they were like, you're you're overqualified. You have a master's degree. Like, you can't be a bank teller, apparently, if you have a master's degree. So I was like, okay, cool. Um, and then and then there was the fact that I'm not bilingual. Another thing very helpful in Los Angeles. And so it's, you know, all these things kind of working against me. I finally ended up getting a job at Lowe's of all places. So I was like, whatever, like just gonna make some money. I'll do theater in the evening, you know, I'll drop this job when I when I have something else. Um, and it was three days in. And, you know, there were there were comments from the manager, like, oh, I hired you because of your smile, and you know, all this stuff that I was like, okay, this is gross. Like, I feel gross being here. Then the theater wanted me on a show, and I was like, okay, I was like, so I need these days off for this show. And he was like, No, can't do that. And I was like, Okay, then this is my resignation. I I quit um on the spot with no notice because I was like, okay, this is gross. I'm not gonna be in this situation, and I'm gonna pursue theater. And it doesn't pay much. I don't have guaranteed hours after this one show, but we're just gonna go for it. And then I ended up a couple weeks later, I got a call from a talent agency. They wanted to bring me on as a junior agent to start. Um I was like, being an agent doesn't feel like my vibe either, you know, like that. It just felt like meeting with them. I was like, this feels a little too slimy for me. I was like, not all agents are slimy. You know, I I'm good friends with some agents and they're not slimy. But, you know, it was just the it was the whole idea of just negotiations and all these things. And I was like, maybe that's not what I want to do. I was like, I'm gonna see, I'm gonna see what else happens before I have to make a decision. Then voicecaster called. And as soon as I walked in, I was like, I'm gonna own this place someday.

Robb 16:25

Wow.

Kelly 16:26

So I turned down the agency job. Um, I was still able to do the theater. And three and a half years later, my boss came to me and said, you know, he's retiring, he's moving, his house is in escrow, and he would love for me to take over. He had gotten other offers on the company, but he wanted me to take over, or he was closing the doors in two weeks. And I was like, all right. And he's like, Well, you can you can go home, you can think about it, you know. And I was like, I don't need to think about it. Like from the second I walked in here, I knew I was gonna own this company someday, and this is that moment.

Robb 16:59

Oh, that's so cool.

Kelly 17:00

Yeah.

Robb 17:01

That is so cool. And you know, it's it's those, it's the it's the listening to yourself in your whole story there, listening. It's like, you know, we think of these closed door moments as dang it, that door closed, dang it, that door closed, as a negative thing. But a lot of times those closed doors are positive things. They are either protecting us from something that we just don't need to be in, but we don't realize that because we're we're, you know, we're manic and we're we're stressed out and we're looking at the one problem right in front of us. We're not looking, you know, at the years ahead of us or whatever. We're like, this is the one thing and this is a bad thing, as opposed to thinking as, wow, thank goodness I didn't, you know, thank goodness the guy at Lowe's was creepy because I might have felt good and wanted to stay, and I might have changed my mind. I might have not had these opportunities. I I I love that. And that's that's so encouraging from you to show that you know, following your your dream, but more so following your your gut of what feels right for you is what you know has led you to now now own this company that you knew as soon as you walked in the door that you were gonna you were gonna own the company. And how many years now has that been?

Kelly 18:15

Uh since 2013, so 13 years now.

Robb 18:18

Wow.

Kelly 18:19

Actually, in four days, it'll be exactly 13 years. May 15th.

Robb 18:23

Happy 13th year anniversary. Yeah.

Kelly 18:26

Thank you.

Robb 18:28

And in that time, I'm sure you've learned a ton, you've met a ton of people. How has your process changed from when you were, you know, directing uh on stage and you know high school and then in college, and then now what you're doing to help, you know, direct in uh, you know, commercials and and all the other stuff, all the other work that you do uh for voice actors.

Kelly 18:53

Yeah, I have found that my process has it essentially still has the same sort of building block since that that moment that you know I I realized, oh, we need we need both the good and the and the what to fix. Um so it my process has gotten a lot more efficient. You know, that's that's one thing that I hear from a lot of people, whether it's from clients, actors that I'm working with, you know, when I'm directing sessions, auditions, whatever it is, they're always like, you can say so much in just a few words. And part of that really is just it's a matter of, I, you know, I've developed the vocabulary where it's like, I also know that saying one word can completely change somebody's direction in what they're doing. Um, I also know that, you know, as you start to explain these stories, you know, you get some directors who are just so long-winded that it's like, wait, what was the first thing you said? What did you, you know? So it's like I have learned to really be efficient in giving direction. But one of my biggest things is always trusting the actor. I have been in enough sessions, whether it's, you know, just just as a casting director, as the engineer, where I'm sitting back and I'm, you know, just there doing my part, you know, and I'm not directing the session. It's it's one of the clients is directing. And it essentially is them saying, like, I was in one one time where it was two hours of just saying friendlier, friendlier after every single take. And it's like, okay, can we throw out a different word? Can we can we give the actor something else to work with? And sometimes I feel like it's for me, it's like I'm I'm gonna trust that you as the actor are doing the acting part. You know, it's like I I shouldn't have to say, who are you talking to? I shouldn't have to say what is your intention. I do, of course, when I'm coaching and everything, because that is that is such a big part of it and getting that ingrained. Um, but it's you know, it's there's a lot of trust that I think has to be there. And honestly, I feel like if a lot of directors just trusted the actors a little bit more, I think everybody would have a better collaborative process overall.

Robb 21:12

Do you think uh some of that though is because you've got you've got the the people who wrote the piece, the people who are backing it with their dollars, and then you've got this unknown of an actor. And so sometimes people have created in their imagination their perfect spot before anyone comes in the in the booth, and they are they are trying to recreate their imagination in a physical realm when that's basically impossible. Because we you know what I mean, and sometimes you struggle against and and are so so stuck on like, oh, it has to be this way, it has to be this way, you know, skies are blue, grass is green, you know, it's like as opposed to opening yourself up to well, maybe skies are teal and grass is aquamarine, you know. Or whatever that the actor brings to it. Um, and then I assume you you work kind of as a bridge to help both parties create that final, you know, beautiful piece.

Kelly 22:13

Yep. Yep. And as a casting director, that's a huge part of my job, is like I am that middle person. I am, I'm essentially playing matchmaker. You know, it's like I know the personalities of the clients, I know the personalities of the actors. And that's that's why it's like I'm always saying like relationships in that community, like that's huge. It is rare that I send somebody into a session and I don't know them in some way, having had worked with them, whether it's in in auditions or you know, in uh just community settings or class settings or you know, things like that, because there is that level of I I also have to trust them. I do know that some clients are extra difficult. So I kind of need to make sure that you know the talent can handle that because I've also seen those those situations go downhill pretty quick where it's like the the client might just be very, very direct and not sugarcoat anything. They're not gonna tell you anything that you're doing right. And so there are some actors who will shut down in situations like that. So it's you know, I I know the people, so it's like, but going back to just having everybody has a different vision. That's why when we look at specs and things like that, they're all over the place because there might be six people who are involved in this, you know, say 30-second commercial, and there's six people involved, they all have it in their head a certain way.

Robb 23:40

Yeah.

Kelly 23:40

So it's like as an actor, you have to be listening to all of these different things, all of these little notes and directions, and they're gonna contradict each other and all of that. And ultimately, it's like you have to trust that what you're bringing to it is what they want. They cast you for a reason, you know, and it's it's usually it's because of the you that you brought to it. And I know just human nature, it's hard to just be confident in ourselves as we are.

Robb 24:11

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So talk me through just a quick like you gotta you get a commercial. What is what does that look like? It lands on your desk, you've gotta figure out who you're who you're gonna send this to because you're a casting director, so you're gonna send it some to some agencies, you may send it to some folks directly or whatever. What's the average group of folks that you're now listening for uh for a piece? Because I know you've you've mentioned before that you've upwards of 3,000. Something, you know, voices.

Kelly 24:46

Oh man, it gets crazy sometimes. It depends on the project. If there are projects that we just send out to people directly, obviously we're listening to a lot fewer that way because I'm not gonna send it to 200 people directly. You know, I'm gonna send it to a very specific group of people who I'm like, these are the people who are right for it. And so, you know, it's like on some of those projects, it's like cool, we only have 70 to listen to, or you know, that kind of a thing. Or we might send it to 70 and 50 submit, you know, or whatever. Um, and then there are other projects where it's like, okay, well, we need to cast it a little bit wider. So, you know, I have an A list, B list, and C list of agents that we work with. And so A lists are the ones that, you know, that I that I like working with. And so those are the ones that I will send to first. So if I'm sending to agents, I'm sending to my A list. If I need to cast a little bit wider, I'll send to the B list. If I need to cast basically nationwide, I will send to the C list.

Robb 25:43

Yeah.

Kelly 25:43

So, and then of course we have worldwide contacts as well for for more specific things. But it kind of depends on on what we're casting and who we're sending it to. Um, but we we will get anywhere, I would say on average, excuse me. On average, we would get anywhere from 400 to like 1400 auditions.

Robb 26:10

Wow. That's a that's a lot. That's a lot. And I'm sure your process now, you know, let's see, 13 years of owning the company and being there three, you know, 16 years of being there uh is a lot different than when you first there, and you just know within that first three to five seconds of whatever it is that it's like, okay, that's a doesn't we give that a second listen, or no, that one's gonna go ahead and get, you know, get get ejected. And, you know, we'll it's not that they did anything wrong, it's just it just doesn't feel right. So we're gonna move on and you know, I'll send something to them again at some other point, but it's just not right for this.

Kelly 26:50

Um absolutely. And and the process has changed just with the pandemic. Because pre-pandemic, we were bringing everybody in studio. So if you didn't live in LA, you probably weren't even auditioning for VoiceCaster unless we needed to cast a wider net, or we were specifically casting in New York, or you know, things like that, then you probably weren't even auditioning for VoiceCaster. You know, it's like voicecaster has been around 51 years this year. And there are still actors who are like, I've never heard of VoiceCaster. And I'm like, because you're not in LA. You know, it's like it's it's now that you know we're we're six years from when the world shut down. It is one of those things where most voice actors do know us now. But for a while there, it was like from 2020 to like 2024. We had people who were like, Who's voicecaster? What do they do? You know, things like that coming up to us, me and Katherine at you know, Vio Atlanta and places like that. And they're like, So what do you guys do? Like, well, let me explain.

Robb 27:50

Right, right.

Kelly 27:51

You know, but but how would they know, you know, when it's it's it everything changed in 2020? And so before that, it's if we were sending 20 auditions to the client, we brought in 20 people to audition. Sometimes we'd have 21, 22, just in case somebody completely blew it. But most of the time they didn't, and they were working with us, they were getting our direction, you know. So it's like we were confident with you know, people came in. So it's like we were choosing those people from a couple hundred demos that we listened to. Again, only need to listen to three to five seconds of a demo to know if somebody is in the right zone for it, and then we can listen more if we need to. But then we just trust that, okay, well, they're an actor, we're gonna bring them in, we're gonna work with them. Yeah, you know, there are obviously people who never came back in after that one audition for various reasons. But, you know, we just never, never invited them back for whatever reason. Um, usually not even performance-wise, usually it was, you know, just just attitude or you know, ego gets in the way.

Robb 29:00

Didn't fit the vibe.

Kelly 29:02

Yep.

Robb 29:02

Yeah. So do you think, I mean, do you do you personally as a casting director look at what happened post-shutdown in the industry as a positive or as a negative? Because like I said, you were casting in person up to that point. And I know you guys are now casting, having more folks in and having some workouts in the in the studio and things like that again now. Um, but do you look at that as a positive because now you you do have an easier access to talent across the country uh as opposed to prior to that?

Kelly 29:38

Yeah, I absolutely see it as a positive, you know, and and for me, that's kind of just my mindset in general, is like I always I always see the the positive in things, you know. I always see the silver lining. And it was funny because once, you know, we we shut down the office and I told the staff, like, okay, we're gonna be working remote at that time. I mean, you remember, it was like two weeks. If the whole world shuts down for two weeks, we'll be fine. Okay. So, you know, it was one of those things where like, we'll see you back in a couple weeks, and then a couple weeks goes by, and then next thing you know, like we were working, we worked remotely for 14 months. Yeah, however, we were still going in studio. We did all of the protocols to be a you know, uh SAG authorized studio during COVID and all that stuff. And the nice thing about voiceover is you can stay secluded. You know, there's a different entrance to the actor side than there is the director side. So you can come into our studio and never come in contact with a human. So we were still doing a lot of sessions and things like that. And I know a lot of a lot of studios, a lot of casting places, they they shut down completely. You know, we're we're one of the few who still have a studio um and we're expanding. You know, it's like we have five studios right now, we're gonna have a sixth, we're working on renovations, you know. So it's like we're we're expanding while others have, you know, kind of shut down. And I absolutely see it as a positive thing because I have gotten to know so many amazing people, not just talented voice actors, but but good people, you know, that I would not have had that opportunity to get to know had we stayed in our own little LA bubble here. So I'm thankful that that happened. And, you know, another thing was like just workshops and stuff. I had always talked about like, oh, we should do, I should do some workshops online so I can meet other actors in other places. And you know, people are getting home studios and things like that. You know, it's like I need to, I need to expand. And it just never happened. So for me, COVID also pushed me to, well, we're gonna adapt, we're gonna change things. I have no idea what it looks like to run, you know, online classes. Yeah, cool. What's this thing called Zoom? I'm gonna look into that and see, you know. So I I absolutely think it changed everything for the better. And you know, it's like a lot of actors are like, oh, but you get more auditions and it's you know more saturated now and all that. And it's like, yeah, but it has opened up so much, you know, for for me, for my clients, it's like, you know, I I feel like for a long time there, I was pushing agents to like, please send me new people. You know, I feel like we're always bringing in the same people. And now it's like I have I have found so many amazing new talent, and some of them are not even new talent, you know, they've been doing this for 10, 15, 20 years. I just never knew them because they weren't in LA.

Robb 32:39

Yeah.

Kelly 32:39

So I feel like it has opened up so much, and I love it.

Robb 32:42

That's awesome.

Kelly 32:43

I'm thankful for it.

Robb 32:44

I love that. Um, on the on the actor side of it though, do you think it's because of not being in the in the booth and be able to kind of give a little bit of direction to the audition? And so now everybody is self-taping and sending in that you've had to kind of expand those notes on your audition. It's like, all right, I'm trying to front load everything that I'm thinking here because I can't change your performance because I'm not able to give you live feedback on what's going on and tell you to roll an R or not roll an R or whatever or something silly. Um, has that changed your process?

Kelly 33:21

Have you Yeah, it absolutely has. You know, it's like I try not to get long-winded with specs. I try to keep them pretty close to what actors do. I know there are some specs that you'll see that are a full page, and it's like, I feel like that's just confusing. And again, I have found that shorter, more concise information is always better. Um, I do have some clients who are like, I want this for take one, this for take two, this for take three, casting one of those today, actually. And it, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, that's what we're gonna do, but it doesn't give the actor a ton of creative license to to bring themselves to it because it's so specific. But I do, you know, it's it is one of those things where I feel like there have been this is probably the biggest thing that I have noticed is that a lot of times actors don't just they don't just trust and do their thing. They end up doing something like like trying too hard, essentially. It's like it's something that's like outside the box. It could work, but it's one of those things where sometimes I'm just like, oh, this person would have been perfect if they had literally just taught. Like all they needed to do was be themselves. And so I find that a lot of times the actors are just not owning themselves as much because they're self-directing, you know. So it's like they're getting in their heads, they are trying to do a lot more than we need them to do. And I I've had times where it's like I'm listening to something and I'm like, you know, if it's somebody that I know well, it's like I'll I'll text them or I'll email them and be like, hey, if you have a chance in the next half hour to an hour, could you just give me one take where you're just like, just talk, like, don't do anything with it, just say the words, you know. Um, and I've had people book because of that. So it's like, I will give direction when I can. We do have time slots where people can either come into the studio or, you know, book a time with us. Um, we'll do it virtually, Zoom, whatever. Um, so that we can direct some people if people want that direction, you know. So sometimes people will do it if they're like struggling and they're like, oh, I just don't know. I don't know what I'm doing on this one, or you know, I can't figure out a take two or take three. I've got one take and that's it. And you know, so it's like we still, we still want to direct when we can. Um, it's just, yeah, it's not the the the primary thing anymore. And I do feel like that that has affected the actors and the quality of the auditions because it's sometimes I'm like, oh, they're a shoe-in. Like this is perfect. They've just just be themselves and they've got this, and then they don't be themselves.

Robb 36:07

Yeah, I feel like you're talking to me, but uh because I because I often will put on the character, get in my head, and try to do something that's like not as natural as it normally is. So I'm not sure. You are not alone. You are not alone. Yeah. Uh huh. I I I love that. I love that, Kelly. I love that just that bit of advice too. So um aside from the work you're doing and and and the the the life that you're living right now, what is bringing you joy?

Kelly 36:40

My kids, yeah. I have two little ones, a five-year-old and an eight-year-old. Um, they're yeah, they are just they're so fun. You know, it's like every every age, I'm like, oh, this is a fun age. Also challenging.

Robb 36:55

Yeah.

Kelly 36:56

But it's fun. You know, it's it's I I just love watching them grow, you know, just letting them be their own little people is is it's it's just magical, you know, and then seeing so much of of myself in them and just it's yeah, which is scary, but also I'm like, my daughter is gonna like own a company someday. She's definitely gonna be a girl boss, but it right now I don't want her to be a girl boss.

Robb 37:24

Right, right.

Kelly 37:25

She thinks she thinks she runs the house. Um, so yeah, but uh they they absolutely give me joy. My nonprofit, I started a nonprofit last year um called Blank Pages Initiative, and we're finally getting things really moving on that. Um, which, you know, it's basically the idea of it is confidence through the arts. So mental health, finding confidence, finding an outlet to just be yourself, you know, in this world that tries to tell us what we should be. So I we're offering workshops in performance arts, visual arts, music, dance, writing, you know, all the different things and for all ages, kids through adults, um, just to kind of give people that safe space, you know, whether it's people who just can't afford to take a dance class or an art class, you know, um, people who just want to, you know, get into a voiceover booth and get a little bit crazy just to express themselves and have fun, not necessarily for a career, you know, things like that. So just trying to kind of open those doors as more and more art programs are being shut down in schools and things like that, you know, and it's like mental health issues obviously on on the rise, you know. I mean, they have been for years. So yeah, just trying to trying to do a little a little part in helping with that.

Robb 38:57

All right, Kelly, this is the second segment of the show. This is where we'll dive a little bit deeper into your mental health journey. Uh, because I believe the more that we talk about this, the more that we kind of take away the power from the negative of the stigma of mental health and and depression and things like that, because we realize we are not alone in it. So for you, how do you keep the darkness at bay?

Kelly 39:21

Honestly, it's it's not always easy.

Robb 39:24

Yeah.

Kelly 39:25

You know, it's it's generally I am a pretty positive person, and that is because I have worked very hard. I have done the inner work, I have figured out, you know, both both what triggers are as well as what glimmers are. You know, it's like I call them glimmers. They're the the opposite of the triggers, right? The things that trigger the the joy, the happiness. And I feel like a big part of of keeping the darkness at bay is being able to take that step back. So I like to think of it as, you know, it's it's when we're in the storm, we can't see anything else. So it's like this cloud is over us, we're in the middle of the tornado, it's chaos, it's dark, it's terrifying, and you feel stuck, you feel trapped. But if you can just step back a little bit and look and see the rest of the sky, then you can see that that storm is only the small part of the sky. There is more sky on that side, there is more sky on the other side, and it's just it's passing through. So I feel like that has always been a big thing for me is just feeling that darkness and not allowing it to suck me in. Or if it does suck me in, then just trying to remember there is so much more. Like I just need to take that step back and know that there is blue sky in the distance, you know, and it's like you just need to try to see that whenever you can. And I'm not saying that that's an easy thing to do. That has taken me many years to to really be able to efficiently do, you know, and actually, actually be able to see that. Um, but I feel like once I've, you know, worked on that and gotten to that point, it it has been life-changing for me.