Dave Willis, Author, Pastor, Podcaster

00:00
I'm just funny enough barely to be a pastor.

00:10
Welcome to another episode of Chewing the Fat. I am your host, Big Robb. Thank you so much for tuning in, downloading the podcast. I certainly do appreciate that. For the folks that have followed me on Instagram, new friends that I've made there, thank you so much for finding me there at Chewing the Fat BR. Of course you can find all the links at ChewingtheFatBR.com as well. Thank you again to the folks that support this podcast with your donations and buying me a coffee through the website too. I do really appreciate that. I'm talking to you, Michael. Thank you so much.

00:39
I am excited about my guest today. He is a friend. He's a confidant. He is someone that when there's been hard times that I have leaned on heavily, please welcome Mr. Dave Willis. Hey Robb, thank you, man. What a touching intro. It's good to see your face. It's like we're, you know, we're in the same town, but just in this kind of like weird technology bubble and crazy schedules that we have.

01:09
even though we're not far away, we're doing this on Zoom, but it's good to see your face. Yeah, absolutely. And we gotta get together. I need to buy you a burrito. It's been too long. For sure. I'm glad we're doing this. I'm glad I'm not your momma's or something like that. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, man. Dave Willis is a, well, I'm not gonna go through your bio. That's what I always hear podcasts, where it's just like, don't read your audience the guest bio, let them discover it. So, I mean, but you are an-

01:38
as I say that and then proceed to say that you're an accomplished author and speaker and podcaster yourself. And I just, I love your heart for people. And I think that's probably what drew me to you most is your just openness and wanting to see people healed in a very personal type of way.

02:03
and things that they make going on, have going on. So, first of all, I appreciate you and I thank you for the heart that you have for people. Are you native to Augusta? Is this born and raised? Is this home? Is this? Well, it's definitely home now, but I'm not native. I just, I feel, at this point I feel like a native, but I didn't get here until about 16 and a half years ago. Oh, wow. And I grew up in Kentucky.

02:33
And so that's where I met my wonderful wife, Ashley. Being from Kentucky, we're of course, we're both first cousins. And so that worked out well. She didn't have to change her last name when we got married, it worked out great. Now she hates my Kentucky cousin jokes, but I'm gonna keep using them all my life. So yeah, that was home for us. And I started out as a youth pastor, was doing ministry up there.

03:02
And, you know, it just felt like God opened some doors to get us down here. Um, I was in Atlanta, Georgia, uh, taking a group to the passion conference in Atlanta, which is a large gathering of young adults that they still do every year. It's a great event. They do it where the Falcons play football, that huge stadium. And I was there with a, with a bunch of young adults. Ashley was with me. She was pregnant with our second child. We had a baby at home being watched by one of, one of our parents. And, um,

03:28
I just, we've both felt like it was time for a change. The church where I was, it was kind of going through some unhealthy transitions and we had never really thought much about leaving home, but we just both felt that urging like it was time for a new adventure. And so I got online and I saw this job posting, it's Stevens Creek Church in Augusta, Georgia. And I went to that church website, opened up, played one of the recent like messages in this thick.

03:56
Southern accent came across on the, and it was Pastor Marty Baker, and he was, and Ashley said, who is that? That's the thickest Southern accent I've ever heard. I said, I don't know, but he seems like a good guy. This seems like a good church. Let's go check it out. And the next night was Wednesday. They did a Wednesday night service at the time. We drove from Atlanta to Augusta, just kind of incognito, and kind of got lost.

04:23
in Augusta driving around, this was like pre GPS days where you're just trying to figure stuff out, with MapQuest pronounce, you young kids don't even know what I'm talking about, but just be thankful you live when you live. We finally found it, went in, had great experience, introduced myself afterwards and just said, hey, I think I'm gonna apply for this. I feel like I could be a good fit. And it started a conversation and a month later we were here. And I, at the time, felt like this is gonna be a short,

04:53
stay, you know, maybe just come and learn some stuff and move on. But we fell in love with this community and we've, we've raised our kids here. Uh, I mean, we've moved away and come back. Like we've, we've really made an effort to put down roots here. So we've got four kids total, three of them are born here. The oldest one wasn't born here, but he's Georgia through and through. In fact, he starts at the university of Georgia this fall. Oh, wow. And so, so yeah, thank you. We're, um, we're.

05:23
We're Georgia Peaches at this point, and we love it. So if we back up to Kentucky, and you were a youth pastor there, prior to that, did you go to seminary? Did you, or again, the thing that drew me to you was your heart for people. So I mean, I'm assuming that's what drew you to ministry as a career. Is that accurate? Yeah, yeah, well, first career I wanted to do was comedy.

05:52
But I think God like protected me from it because I would have, I don't know. I feel like if I would have gone hard down that path, I would have ended up like Chris Farley. Like I would have just, I would have taken kind of that, that road of just ended up doing some really unhealthy stuff. And...

06:16
And so I felt like that was God's protection. And two, he also protected me by not making me funny enough to be a comedian. So I'm just funny enough barely to be a pastor. And so he kind of opened that door, but I do love people, I love helping people. I get a lot of satisfaction just from giving somebody some encouragement and then seeing that it made a difference in their life. And I just think it's not that I'm doing anything.

06:44
special. I just think the world is so desperate for encouragement and so few people are giving it, even though all of us have the capacity to give it. I started noticing that when I would give it, when I would take the time to really listen to somebody's story, hear them, value them, give them some encouragement, point them to some scriptures that have been meaningful to me that I thought might be meaningful to them, that it seemed to make a real difference. And I felt honored to get to do it. And so I started pursuing that. I went to school.

07:12
at a little Christian school in Kentucky called Georgetown College, not to be confused with like the big Georgetown University in DC. Georgetown, Kentucky is where I grew up and they had a little school. So went there, you know, met Ashley, her first day as a freshman. I was a junior at that point, a couple years ahead, she walked in and I was just like, I got to get to know that girl. And we got to know each other and just really hit it off. And it really, you know, ever since then, ever since she, she entered my life, I feel like is really when

07:42
when life started coming into focus for me. Because before that, I mean, I tell the time like, Jesus and Ashley are the reason that I'm alive and sane and doing anything worth doing. But before her, I just felt like I didn't have a whole lot of direction. But the relationship with her and just kind of her wisdom and bringing out the best in me, I felt like it grounded me. And then together, really as a team, we started doing some things

08:12
in ministry, even though I was the one that was really on staff at this church as a youth pastor, eventually, we started out there as volunteers together. She was on staff before me doing like, you know, kind of administrative stuff. I ended up, you know, kind of get the story like mixed up probably in the timeline. But I, right after I finished college, I took a job at the University of Kentucky, briefly helping in student recruitment. And that let me get a free master's degree.

08:40
which is one of the main reasons I took the job because you could get free school while you were there. So I got a master's degree in communication studies because I really, I felt like communication is the key to almost everything. Like if you can learn how to communicate, then no matter what you do, you're gonna do it more effectively. If you can learn what's gonna connect with people. And I thought even if I'm gonna do ministry,

09:03
A lot of the pastors I know are great people, they love Jesus, they know the Bible, but they're terrible communicators. And they don't even know they're terrible because they only compare themselves to other pastors who are also terrible communicators. So I thought, I want to be effective. If I've got the most important message ever, the Bible, I don't want to be somebody who's boring people with it. I want to learn, do the disciplined work of learning kind of how to communicate. And so that degree helped.

09:33
a lot of people who thought a lot differently than me. It helps me to kind of have perspective and compassion. And I did end up going to seminary, though I never finished a seminary degree. So I'm a seminary dropout. So like a lot of my learning has been, I'm always trying to learn, reading something, watching a video, but I just got to a point where it was like, I was just so tired of formal education. I was like, I gotta...

10:01
I gotta learn in the trenches, you know, I can't learn in the classroom anymore. But we went from Kentucky, where the main reason we left is the senior pastor at that church, who was a really lovable guy, but had gotten, I think, in just kind of an unhealthy place, ended up having an affair with the female worship leader at this church. So the two most visible people at this church.

10:25
ended up in an adulterous affair with each other. And as you can imagine, I mean, it just imploded and it hurt so many people. And it was just another one of these scandals and so disappointing. And I think maybe that was the genesis in some ways of us realizing that we wanted to be part of helping marriages. Like we saw the damage that could be done on a big scale when people step outside their marriage and when those principles aren't upheld.

10:54
We just thought if we could protect that from happening, if we could help save some families from falling apart. At the time, we didn't know what that would look like. And we were just kids who were inexperienced, but we said maybe someday we'll have a chance to do it. And years later, we started having the chance to do it, which is what we're doing now as our main focus. But through it all, like we've been part, for most of that part of Stevens Creek Church here locally.

11:23
It's been a community and a home for us. We've learned a lot there. It's been great for our kids. And we're just kinda like, again, people say, oh, you're marriage experts. I'm like, well, I don't know if a marriage expert exists. If they do, it's probably somebody who's been married like 60 years, it's not me. But we're trying to be marriage encouragers. It's like, I can do that. I can encourage people in their marriage. I feel qualified to do that. The expert part, I don't know, but.

11:50
that whole encouragement thing. If we can encourage people where they are in their marriage, in their family, give them hope to keep going, give them a few resources to help, then I feel like we're doing something good. And so that's in a nutshell, I guess, kind of been the focus. Yeah. Yeah. And now did that start with a book? Did it start with the podcast? Did it start with the conferences? I mean, where...

12:20
where did you dive in and settle on and say, okay, this is, I mean, this is the path. This is the way that we do need to go. What was that first venture into that? Well, it started with a lot of false starts, really. You know, it's like, I've done a bunch of stuff that did not work. Most of my ideas are bad ideas. Um, and then at the time when it started, we didn't have,

12:45
We didn't have the resources. I mean, we didn't have money to really invest into anything. We didn't have a whole lot of extra time. We were raising young kids. Yeah. So our limitations kind of brought into focus what we could do, how we could start. And what ended up taking off was I started a Facebook page about 11 years ago, I guess it was, and just called it marriage. And even today, like if you type the word marriage into Facebook, it...

13:11
it'll still be one of the very first things that pops up. It's facebook.com slash stronger marriages. And I started that, I just started posting. It had no strategy. It'd be like random funny memes about marriage, a Bible verse every now and then, you know, a question to try to get engagement going. Nothing really happened at first. Like my mom liked all the posts, I think, and that was about it. But, and I just thought, well, this isn't really taking off. But then about six months in, I've...

13:39
I put this post about just being very careful of having friends of the opposite, close friends of the opposite sex because so many affairs we were seeing happened as a result of people who didn't have healthy boundaries in these friendships. And this friendship ends up crossing lines and creating an unhealthy situation. And so I just put that out there, not thinking it was that controversial, but people started losing their minds arguing about it in the comments, which

14:05
elevated the engagement and made the post essentially go viral. People were like, yes, this ruined my marriage. You know, you, you just shouldn't have any friends of the opposite sex. Other people are like, well, I've got great friends of the opposite sex. You've got to, you know, be more open-minded than that. And just the engagement around that started making everything that we posted for a period of time really take off. And it was this golden season of growth. And through that, we started learning what people were actually going through because from all over the world, we were getting messages from folks that.

14:33
felt safe and anonymous and they were telling us what they were going through and being super honest about, you know, trying to overcome past sexual abuse or trying to, you know, overcome these insecurities that they have or whatever it might be. And so we started doing the work of figuring out, all right, well, does the Bible have something to say about that? What's modern research say about that? And it became this on-the-job training as we were just writing these people back, trying to encourage them. And then from that Facebook page,

15:02
we just started trying different stuff. Like, well, maybe let's try a blog, let's try self-publishing a book. And some stuff took off, some stuff didn't, but it gave us a safe place to really experiment and to build an audience. And then as that grew, eventually, we partnered up with a ministry called Exo Marriage, which has been around for a long time. They were originally called Marriage Today, based in Texas, even moved to Texas for a while. And-

15:30
they had the infrastructure that we really needed. And so they invited us kind of into their infrastructure and got behind us. And then things just got a whole lot easier, you know, they've to work with. Yeah. Give you a little bit more breathing room to do the work that you're the quote, air quote professional in, instead of having to do all of the stuff behind the scenes that you're, that you were struggling to do or whatever. Oh, that's great. I'm bad at most stuff. And so when I was trying to do all of it,

16:00
It was, it's not good. I'm, I tell Ashley, I'm good at like three things. You know, it's like karaoke, trivia, and marriage content, you know, and it's so, but I was trying to do 20 things. Not all at the same time. Not all at the same time. No. And the karaoke is really just in my own mind. It's, it's not really good. It's more like shower. Okay. Yeah. Right. It's more shower. Okay. For sure. So what's

16:29
I know at one point, and you talk about this somewhat, you mentioned XL Marriage in Texas and the stuff that's going on there. Weren't you trying to bring something like that, like here to the Augusta area, like a venue or a place to have something like that, something up in Thompson or something like that? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we did. Which first of all, I think that's amazing. Again,

16:59
for a person who's a transplant to a town to be like, you know what, I love this town so much, I wanna do more for the town and to bring that to as an option to something that doesn't exist here. So, I mean, kudos to you for loving a town enough to kind of try and bring something here. Well, thank you. But it turned out to be one of those things where it was a beautiful idea, but I did not have the...

17:26
I don't think I had like the business sense experience, what was really needed to get that to take off. And so we, you know, we moved back from Texas here and as soon as we moved back, one of the things we wanted to do, like you said, is like, let's establish something here. And the first, what we wanted to establish was we wanted to restore this beautiful old home that was in Thompson, this historic home that's been around for hundreds of years and create a wedding venue out of it. And maybe a venue that could host small marriage or treats.

17:55
just a safe place for couples to come, but also a place where couples could start off their life together as married couples. And we had this whole plan of how we were going to transform this property. And ultimately, it ended up being a learning adventure, but a disappointing one. The mayor of Thompson and his wife at the time, I don't think he's even still the mayor, but they lived right across the street. And the mayor's wife, who I never actually met in person, I'm sure she's a lovely person, but

18:24
From what I hear, she got in her mind that it was a really bad idea to have this because it was going to bring all this unwanted traffic, even though we had a plan for traffic, for like parking that was going to be in the back, like on this alleyway that wasn't going to connect with the residential area. But I think that the locals who lived around it, even though we worked hard to kind of build relationships with them, I think that they just...

18:51
they were afraid of the change that it might bring to their quiet little block. And in retrospect, I understand that and I respect that. So we ultimately had to just kind of take a loss and sell this home as a flip, which it's hard to sell a 200 year old home as a flip because it takes a kind of unique buyer. But I felt like God worked it out. We were able to.

19:17
to unload it, we learned some lessons. But it is our desire and the desire we had then and the desire we still have is in this community, we wanna establish things and places that are gonna enrich the community because this community has enriched us. We love the CSRA. I hope to be here for the rest of my life. But in this season of our lives, I also feel like it was probably God's protection to not take that on because we had so much going on already. And I get a little ADD and end up.

19:46
kind of taking more than I need to on at once. Like it was kind of God's way of saying, Dave, just chill, just focus on what you're doing, raise your kids, be a good dad and husband, do the work I've called you to do. There's plenty of it already. And with that little bit of margin you do have, just enjoy life and get some rest. And so I've slowly been learning that, but I'm hoping as years go on, our kids get a little bit older, there's a lot that we would like to do.

20:15
here locally to just, you know, enrich the community and who knows what that'll be, but we're, we're open. Yeah. And you know, I, I love Augusta. Um, you know, I'm, I'm over here. I live over here in North Augusta, but you know, I was talking to somebody earlier this week. It's like, doesn't matter, you know, where you live. Augusta is kind of the hub of, of everything. You know, it's the, it's the place marker. Um,

20:43
And it has so much potential to do such great things. It's like, I can feel it's on like the precipice of being able to be more than what it is right now. And there's so many people that want that and have a desire for that, but there's just certain bureaucracies and things like that that seem to be short-sighted. And they don't want to allow for that type of growth. They wanna see...

21:12
something that's going to benefit them now in their pocket and not something necessarily that's forward thinking that's going to benefit not them, but their kids or their kids' kids. Exactly, yeah. Planting the seed, but not seeing the fruit. You know, and we need more people that are like seed planters and not trying to be harvesters. You know, let the seed grow, let it come to fruition. And then it can be something that this whole area could be known for more than.

21:42
You know, golf and James Brown, love golf, love James Brown. But you know what I mean? Right. But the other 51 weeks of the year, there's a whole lot we could be. Yes. A lot we could be doing. And I do, I feel the same way whenever we go downtown and I love going downtown and eating and hanging out and walking it, but every time we're there and there's a great energy, you know, some nights around some of the new restaurants, but Ashley and I are just always thinking, man, there's just, there's so much potential. There's so much more that could happen here. And North Augusta, like

22:11
Really, they've taken the lead, like with the new growth and the ballpark and the whole development around that and the greenway. And I think if our city leaders in Richmond County could kind of take that, I don't know, example, I think there's so much that could be done in the longterm. Again, I got that same desire. It's not just about us. It's, I want my kids, my grandkids, to have a better city, a better community than we had because of what we're doing right now. And so,

22:41
That's the challenge is like asking myself, what can I do now? Like I'm not an elected official, I don't have a ton of resources to go and develop things, but what can I do just as somebody who loves this community? And I think if we all think that way, this community will get even better. Yeah, I mean, you look at the growth out in Grove town, you look at the growth, the stuff that they are doing in Evans, I don't.

23:07
I don't live in Richmond County, so I can't vote on these things. I can't, you know what I mean? But I'm still very invested in what happens because I, you know, I was, I was born and raised in Augusta. I want to see it flourish. I want to see these things because it's going to cause that, that ripple effect to all the other counties and cities and, you know, areas around Augusta. If, if we could just get that spark. You know? Yes, I'm with it, man.

23:37
I'm, sign me up. What's bringing you joy right now, Dave? That's a great question. You know, I think, you know, when I, I have a tendency to just try to go too fast through life where I'm not experiencing the moment. You know, I'm always thinking about what I got to do next, checking something off the list. Yeah.

24:06
the value of a day on how many tasks I was able to complete in that day. And like, that's my tendency. But what I'm discovering, the older I get, is the more I'm able to slow down and just turn my phone off, get outside, go up to the canal, go for a walk, go for a jog, just be outside in nature and just reflect on all the blessings that are in my life.

24:35
and just the simple, like simple miracles all around me. You know, just to go out to the canal and like just see a hawk flying overhead or a squirrel running around. And it's like, you know what? Life is good. I just need to be reminded that life is good. And to come home, get to like wrestle with my kids. It's a blessing to hang out with my wife. You know, I'm thankful to be married to my best friend. When I really just focus on

25:05
what really matters, I realized like I'm a rich dude. Like, I mean, I really, really am. Most of my stress, and I do, I tend to stress, but most of it is self-inflicted. I mean, like I'm not living in some war zone, you know, where I'm having to fight for survival or not knowing where the next meal is gonna come from, or I'm not living with some debilitating terminal illness. There are a lot of folks out there that are going through just real hardship, and my heart goes out to them.

25:34
And the stuff that I complain about, and yeah, I've got stuff, I'll invent stuff to complain about sometimes, but it's not like any of those things. I mean, so when I just allow myself to be slow down and grateful and I feel like a different person and it brings me some joy.

25:58
All right, Dave, this is the second segment of the show. We dive a little bit deeper into you and your mental health journey. As I always say, I have a personal belief that everybody has down days. Everybody has some form of depression, whether it be a diagnosed or non-diagnosed. And I don't mean that it's something severe. It could be just that I don't wanna get out of bed.

26:26
It could be that I don't feel like doing this thing that I always have to do. And being able to say yes, that's a thing that I have, and to find out that there are other people that have that same kind of feeling, I think that takes some of the weight off. It takes some of the power away from depression because that's what it wants to do, is rob you of your joy in saying that you are alone. But when you find out you're not, it makes it an easier burden to bear. So for you, Dave.

26:55
How do you keep the darkness at bay?

26:59
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I used to, I think we all have unhealthy ways to try to medicate the darkness instead of dealing with it. And for me, when I was young, and as a teenager, young adult, you know, when that would come on, which it would regularly, I mean, I could be like just a super happy person, but then I could go down into a pit and get really dark, really discouraged.

27:29
And the way that I would medicate that in an unhealthy way back in the time is as a teenager and as a young adult, I had a real struggle with pornography. And looking back and trying to understand like, why I fell into that so hard as someone who knew just with my own faith and understanding of worldview, all of it, like that this is wrong, this is objectifying, this is not God's plan, this is in so many ways not good. And yet I would fall back into it.

27:59
And I feel like part of the reason why is I was trying to medicate. I was trying to numb, uh, really kind of the darkness, the discouragement, instead of dealing with the issue of like, why am I like feeling so sad or down? I would numb that with this artificial, artificial high that came from, you know, this kind of counterfeit version of intimacy. Um, so like in the work that Ashley and I do now, we, we talk a lot about porn because I think now more than ever.

28:27
It's something people are turning to as just as an unhealthy medication for depression and for loneliness. And so like we try to come at it as a place of not, you know, beating people over the head with judgment because that never works anyway, but to just say, listen, from experience, I know what you're feeling. I know that cycle that you're stuck in. And I know that it's

28:54
there's diminishing returns on it. I know like the more you're doing, the less you're getting out of it, and yet you feel like you still can't escape it, but God wants to set you free from that, and he's got a better way for you to, you know, fill those longings of your heart, you know, the longing for connection, that longing for, you know, everything you're looking for, you're just, there's a real solution that's not a counterfeit. And I think any of us can be prone to turn to porn, to alcohol, to, and you know, there's a,

29:24
I'll know the difference between like going out and having a drink with some friends and sitting at home alone sad with a bottle in your hand, just trying to make the sadness go away. So I'm not saying like having a drink's bad, like I'd like to go out and have a drink. But when that becomes a crutch that we're leaning on, when we feel like we need that to like just numb the,

29:52
whenever we're doing something, instead of dealing with the feeling or the issue, then it gets unhealthy. So none of that really answered your question. I was just kinda talking about, these are some unhealthy things. And frankly, I've fallen into a lot of them. I've self-medicated in a lot of different kinds of unhealthy ways through the years. Right now, I feel like for the most part, I feel like I've made a healthier place with it. Number one, just because I'm not afraid to just,

30:21
talk to people, you know, I've talked to counselors at different points, which I highly recommend, both, you know, face-to-face counseling. I met with Dr. Max Kennedy at the Center for Care and Counseling and right here in Martinez. He's amazing. He's like, you know, if Yoda was a real person kind of guy. I've met like virtually with a counselor. So it can be really helpful. You know, I've got.

30:50
friends I can reach out to just to talk, without judgment, everybody needs friends like that. And if you don't have friends like that, then you have to cultivate those kinds of friendships. It doesn't just happen, you have to do the work to invest in those relationships over time. So I'm thankful for that, thankful to have a wife I can tell anything to. I've got depression in...

31:18
I don't know if it's, if it's them, like if my diagnosis stems just from the fact that it's a standalone thing, I think it's probably connected to the fact that I have a thyroid disorder that I was diagnosed with about seven years ago. And like every part of my body is impacted by it. My, um, it's an autoimmune disease that impacts, you know, my hormones, my energy, um, everything was off for a while. Like, and so through medication, like I got, I'm on thyroid medication and I take supplements and I do all that.

31:48
But the last piece of that puzzle for me is that I finally got on an antidepressant because I was doing everything else, trying to medicate just the physical issue and trying to do the stuff that they say will make you feel better. You know, get outside, you know, do extra, I was trying to do all that. And there was still, I still couldn't kind of get over that hump. And I think there was some pride in me that thought like, I'm not gonna get on an antidepressant. That's for like people who are.

32:15
messed up and which is just a dumb stigma. But no, it's just another medication. It's like, well, if my thyroid's messed up, of course I'm going to take thyroid medication. If my serotonin's messed up, then why would I not take something that's going to help just bring my serotonin levels up? And so I did. And I got on like a generic version of Zoloft. Cost me like $3 a month or something.

32:44
it is the best $3 I ever spent. Within days of taking it, Ashley was like, you're back, you're back. And I just, and I felt bad for how long I'd held off on taking it because I thought how much time did I kind of rob for myself and from her where I wasn't at my best and I could have been with something so simple. And so I'm not a drug pusher.

33:11
It's not necessarily for everybody, but if you're out there and you're struggling, don't be afraid. And like, and depression, by the way, I think we have this idea that it just means you're sad all the time, and that's not what depression is. Depression can look very different in different people. And for men, for instance, it manifests usually more as anger than as sadness, but it can manifest in a lot of different ways.

33:38
And so, you know, you do the research and you start seeing, seeing yourself and just some of the symptoms. And it's not just somebody that's laying in bed crying all day, though it can be that. And certainly if that's you, then get help. But, you know, I think about all these, these celebrities we've seen out there that were smiling and seemed so happy on the surface and probably had moments of great happiness along the way, but inside they were so depressed that they took their own life eventually, because they didn't get that help that they needed. And so,

34:09
Just don't let that be your story. You know, get help. There's no shame at all in it. I'm in fact, it takes wisdom and strength to recognize that you need help and to seek it, you know, get counseling, get medication, if that will help. I'm, I'm so thankful for those, those tools. Like I really am. I mean, like every, every day when I, you know, brush my teeth and take my little pill, like I'm, I mean, I can almost like take it with a prayer of Thanksgiving. Like, you know, God, thank you. That one of the ways you heal.

34:38
is through medication and this is helping me and I appreciate it. So just get what you need. Yeah, and you're right. I think in things like this, having this discussion, letting people realize that there may be the social stigma on saying that you have a mental health problem or you have a depression. Maybe you have an anger problem. Like you said, that may be stemmed from depression that you're not dealing with. The more that we can...

35:08
talk about it and normalize it, I think the more people who will be apt to seek help, whether it be finding that group of friends that they can be honest with, because talking helps, or they can go to a therapist, a professional, and talk because that helps, or find a doctor that can say, hey, yeah, your level here is really low. We need to rebalance some things that are off, and all of those are okay. Yeah.

35:38
Of course, yeah, to take the stigma off of it and the shame, there's no shame in getting the help that you need. So don't stay stuck, you don't have to be. And I wish I would have done these things sooner. It's why I talk so openly about this stuff now is because if, I feel like I wasted some time that I didn't need to waste. And so if I can help other people, it's like,

36:05
That time I wasted doesn't feel as wasted. If something that good comes from it is that that I can motivate others to not waste time and go ahead and take that step, talk to a doctor. And not to like generalize the genders, but I know for men, we tend to be less likely to go and tell a doctor that I need help. Like I'm, we're like, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. When we're not fine, you know? And I don't like going to doctors. Like I had a stretch of years, right? It just didn't go.

36:35
I didn't like it. But during that stretch, I desperately needed to go. There was a lot that was off in me physically and mentally. And so go see a good doctor, get some blood work done, see where your levels are, and make a plan to just get those levels right. And I'm telling you, you could feel so much better than you feel right now. I didn't realize, and I still got a ways to go, but I didn't realize.

37:01
that I could actually feel good because I had just sort of felt bad for so long. And you don't have to live like that. Yeah. And that had become kind of the norm. That's what you thought that bad feeling was the good feeling. You didn't know there was a level above that. You know, right. I'm like this, so I guess this is just my age or this is life and it doesn't, it doesn't have to be. Yeah. And you know, and that and you're absolutely right about guys and not wanting to go to the hospital. I mean, how many times have you heard like, you know, I'll just shake it off.

37:29
Just shake it off. You know, you hit your- You're fine. Yeah, you could like put a nail through your hand with a nail gun and they're like, oh, well it went all the way through, you're fine, just put a bandaid on it, put some super glue on it, you're fine. Just a flesh wound, you're all right. Exactly, you know, it's, you know, and those are things that you can see how much more stuff is going on with things that you can't see that need to be addressed and taken care of. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so do what you can.

37:58
you know, and I think even as a pastor, as a Christian, I think sometimes we spiritualize justifying living miserably instead of getting the help. It's like, no, like I'm just, you know, God wants me to walk through this valley or I'm just, I'm praying and like God can heal me if he wants, but if I don't get better, he just doesn't want to heal me. And I think like, that's a really limited view of God and

38:27
his goodness and his mercy. And I mean, you gotta take the help that's out there. I mean, you can sit in your kitchen all day praying for nourishment and die of starvation with food all around you, if you don't actually take that food and eat it, right? I mean, it's the same with medicine, with help, with anything. I mean, yeah, prayer is part of it. I mean, I'm for prayer. God can do supernatural things, but. But.

38:55
He usually wants us to participate by like, you know, seeking the help that, that we need and being proactive about it. And, and yeah, there are going to be moments in life that you do walk through dark valleys for sure. And he's with you in them, but you know, don't stay there longer than you have to.

39:16
Dave, this is the third segment of the show. This is time now for the fast five. The fast five. It's time now for the fast five. Sorry, still working on the theme song. Don't really have any music or anything like that. No, that is inspiring. It's inspiring. And it was a good like lift up. I kind of brought the whole thing down. We needed you to bring the fast five. I'm talking about depression and I feel like there should be like a sad violin playing behind me.

39:46
You've got to bring it up. Absolutely. Well, Fast 5 is powered by Poddex. It's an app created by my friend Travis Brown. It's icebreakers, but there are sort of physical decks that you can get. Keep a few cards on you in your wallet or your briefcase or something. If you ever have a chance to need an icebreaker, pull out one of these Poddex cards, ask some questions, and have a good time. As a matter of fact, if you go to chewingfatbr.com slash.

40:14
Pod decks and use promo code chew you get 10% off your physical deck But I am going to use the app and again you can get that on any of your app stores on your iPhone or your Android or Google or whatever it is But there's no wrong answers. So don't worry about that day. No wrong answers. Just first thing comes top good. All right, you ready? I'm ready. All right. Here we go. Question number one

40:39
Where do you go when you need to blow off some steam? Yeah, I usually go to the Augusta canal and just go for a run, okay. You know, and sweat and get outside, get, get in some quiet. And I, I always, always feel better afterwards. So, you know, and that the second place would be like, we've got a little, little kind of

41:05
simple home gym in our basement. Cause my teenage sons are into weightlifting and I'll go down there and just like lift some of their weights and they're, they're like stronger than me at this point, which is kind of demoralizing, but just moving some weight around and sweating a little bit. It's free. It doesn't cost anything. And I mean, even if I do down there for 20 minutes, like I feel less stressed afterwards, so, so yeah, probably that. Awesome. All right. Question number two.

41:36
Seeing as you do have an expertise in some relationship stuff, I did throw some relationship questions in here for you. Nice. What is the best way to earn trust in a relationship? Well, really the only way to earn trust in a relationship is consistency, right? So I've heard it said that trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. Oh, wow. So you gotta build it one little drop at a time, but you can breach that trust all at once and pour out a whole bunch of it and then.

42:05
building it back, it's the same way. You got to one drop at a time. You can't build trust based on what you promise you're gonna do or you say you're gonna do, only on what you do and keep doing consistently. And so be consistent, be honest, be transparent, have no secrets and just be real and keep doing it. And over time, trust will come. I love that, I love that. All right, question number three.

42:30
What embarrasses you instantly? Oh gosh, instantly. Oh man, so I love awkward humor. I love watching The Office, for instance, where it's just these awkward scenarios. Love it, it's hilarious to me. But when it's real life, for some reason, what I find hilarious in fiction, I cringe. I can't do it, even if it's.

42:57
even if it's like on a movie, like even like the Borat movies or stuff, you know, where it's awkward stuff, but it's in real life and it's really happening to these people. Like I can't do it. Like, and my wife will watch just to make fun of how, how awkward I get around those kinds of situations. So, so yeah, just awkwardness in real life, which I'm prone to anyway. It always makes me uncomfortable. So you kind of like the whole.

43:23
of embarrassment you always have. You're always just a little embarrassed. Always. Right. Always. Yeah. It's just right there. Right. Just all the time. Question number four.

43:37
What was the last book you read?

43:41
Oh, so right now I'm reading a book that is going to be a movie, a Martin Scorsese movie this fall. And it looks like it's gonna be a great movie. The book is really interesting. It's a true story. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to like look up the title. It's, it takes place, this Osage Indian reservation in Oklahoma where they find oil and it brings all this money into this poor community. And then there's all, because they have all this money, there's all of this kind of, you know,

44:11
shady individuals that emerged trying to get some of that money and all these different stories and the FBI was kind of born out of some of the scandals that happened around it. And it's called Killers of the Flower Moon, I believe. So it's by David Gunn, G-U-N-N. I like reading, you know, well-written nonfiction stuff. I just think, you know, the

44:38
The more you understand about history, the more you can kind of understand about what's happening now. I like some fiction too. If I'm gonna read fiction, I like some like John Grisham stuff or adventure stuff like the Jack Reacher novels and you know, that kind of stuff. I read Christian books. I read a variety of things. I usually have a couple of things going at once. All right, question number five.

45:07
What's the best compliment you've ever received? Oh man, that's good. Best compliment I ever received was in grade school during kickball when I would get up and somebody would back up. Oh, nice. Like yes, they respect. Thank you. Respect the leg. But I mean, that did feel like a big compliment whenever that would happen, which wasn't often.

45:36
I, yeah, I think like Ashley saying yes to marry me was probably like the greatest compliment. Oh, like just really? Yes. All right. That's the ultimate affirmation. Somebody like, yes, I will spend my life with you. So that's awesome. That's awesome. You get some great branding points for that one. That's yeah. Well, that's our fast five and that's the show, Dave. Thank you so much for being here.

46:02
Hey, thank you, Robb. You're doing a great job. Your voice is so soothing. Like, I just want to record it. Like, have you read me? I want a recording of you reading me bedtime stories. I just feel like I would sleep better. I'd do that for you. I'd do that for you, if that's what you want. If folks want to keep up with you... Now, I'm embarrassed. If folks want to keep up with you, what's the best way that you can keep up with Dave Willis?

46:26
Well, there are multiple outlets. I'm going to send you a copy of Good Night Moon. And we'll start with that for your narration. Perfect. It would be lovely. But for keeping up with Ashley and me, you know, a lot of our since we do so much marriage stuff together, a lot of our kind of accounts and stuff is joined. So on Instagram, we're at Dave and Ashley Willis, all spelled out. Or if you just search for us, we should pop up there. Or you can go to DaveAndAshleyWillis.com. And that's kind of a.

46:56
one-stop shop for a lot of what we're doing. And if you're here locally in the CSRA, come by Stevens Creek Church. You know, we're there. We both together speak there quite a bit. And then I'm up there solo preaching as well. But it's a great community. If you don't have a church home, come by. We'd love to meet you in person. That's awesome. Maybe you still have the podcast up as well? Yes. So we host the Naked Marriage Podcast.

47:25
So it's an easy name to remember. Just uh...

47:29
The Naked Marriage Podcast, new episodes come out twice a week. Oh, and we'd love to connect with you over there. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I encourage you, if you're listening to this podcast and you happen to go and you either listen to the Naked Marriage Podcast or you do check it out while you're there. Also give them a five star rating and write them a review as well, because Dave's an amazing person and the podcast is great. I'm sure you will learn a lot. And I know that they would appreciate your support

47:58
ratings in review just like I do as well. So yeah give Robb five stars, Chewing the Fat five stars even if you say you know the Dave Willis guest was a little boring but as a whole this show is incredible. Don't let that one subpar episode sway you because overall this show

48:19
is worthy of five stars and it really is. You're doing great work. I appreciate that, Dave. Thank you so much again for being here and I'll see you again soon, but okay. We'll get that burrito. It's on me. Awesome. If you would like to support this podcast, I would appreciate it if you bought me a coffee at chewingthefatbr.com and you can find all the links for Dave and all of our past guests on the show notes as well as on the website too. But I look forward to the next chance we have to sit a spell.

48:48
and chew the fat.